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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All (Read 1222 times)
SnarkySack
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #130 - Dec 30th, 2017 at 11:06pm
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Burnsred wrote:

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Wife beating was not an issue in the colonies.  I'm sure it happened, but no one was making an issue of it.  Slavery was an issue and the inclusion of the phrase "all men are created equal" was tacit recognition that the African-American male slaves were not men by the standards of the signers of the declaration.


Billie wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 4:59pm:
That's not true. It's a filthy lie.


Oh, really?

What did those slaveholders mean when they signed a document that read:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Did they mean, "of course that includes black men.  Which is why we are hoping that in eighty years or so, the southern states will secede so the northern states can invade them, take away their franchise and use the opportunity to pass an amendment banning slavery?"

The history I'm telling you about isn't some alternative interpretation or revisionism.  That Lincoln did not fight the war to free slaves is documented in his own well-known words.  That he only freed slaves in states "in rebellion" hoping that they would join the union in order to keep their slaves is also a well-known fact.

You are too close emotionally to this issue.  Your emotions are leading you to support slavers and to convince yourself that they were anti-slavery.

Quote:
The compromise made with the slave states in order to induce them to join the Union was not done to preserve slavery but to give the new nation a chance to survive and grow into it's ideals.


At the time of the declaration of independence only one state had outlawed slavery so is your claim that the one free state was compromising with the twelve slave states?  That is absurd.  After the constitution was ratified there was no such thing as a free state because of the fugitive slave clause.

Quote:
No one but tribal minded slavers believed that the people being kept as slaves were not human.
Liberal minded people of the time (libertarians are their philosophical heirs) knew that the people being held as slaves were people, born with equal rights to any other people.


Quote me some founders who wrote about that.

Quote:
It was the stinking slavers who forced the word "slave" to sully our Constitution with it's filthy name and had the nerve to demand "representation" for what they considered to be livestock.


The stinking slavers were a large fraction of the founders including Washington, Jefferson, Franklyn and Madison.

Quote:
It was barbaric tribal minded slavers who forced the Civil War by insisting on a "right" to preserve and extend slavery.


No, it was the slavers who insisted on secession.  It was the northern industrial aristocracy who controlled the Union congress and president who insisted on a war that killed more people than it freed.

  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Don_G
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #131 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:08am
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SnarkySack wrote on Dec 30th, 2017 at 11:06pm:
Burnsred wrote:



Oh, really?

What did those slaveholders mean when they signed a document that read:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Did they mean, "of course that includes black men.  Which is why we are hoping that in eighty years or so, the southern states will secede so the northern states can invade them, take away their franchise and use the opportunity to pass an amendment banning slavery?"

The history I'm telling you about isn't some alternative interpretation or revisionism.  That Lincoln did not fight the war to free slaves is documented in his own well-known words.  That he only freed slaves in states "in rebellion" hoping that they would join the union in order to keep their slaves is also a well-known fact.

You are too close emotionally to this issue.  Your emotions are leading you to support slavers and to convince yourself that they were anti-slavery.


At the time of the declaration of independence only one state had outlawed slavery so is your claim that the one free state was compromising with the twelve slave states?  That is absurd.  After the constitution was ratified there was no such thing as a free state because of the fugitive slave clause.


Quote me some founders who wrote about that.


The stinking slavers were a large fraction of the founders including Washington, Jefferson, Franklyn and Madison.


No, it was the slavers who insisted on secession.  It was the northern industrial aristocracy who controlled the Union congress and president who insisted on a war that killed more people than it freed.


Are you competing with jeff to see who can be the most vile racist?
  
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kaz
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #132 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:15am
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Don_G wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:08am:
Are you competing with jeff to see who can be the most vile racist?


WTF?  No one's going to challenge you for that, Adolph.  You're the one who thinks blacks can't compete on an equal playing field in education or on the job.  You're the one who thinks blacks aren't entitled to their own political views and if they don't say what you tell them to they should be destroyed.

You just call them all Sambo.  When it comes to racism, you're the real deal.  Ditto women, gays, Hispanics and other groups.  It's all white men to you
  

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Billie
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #133 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:40am
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SnarkySack wrote on Dec 30th, 2017 at 11:06pm:
Burnsred wrote:



Oh, really?

What did those slaveholders mean when they signed a document that read:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Did they mean, "of course that includes black men.  Which is why we are hoping that in eighty years or so, the southern states will secede so the northern states can invade them, take away their franchise and use the opportunity to pass an amendment banning slavery?"

The history I'm telling you about isn't some alternative interpretation or revisionism.  That Lincoln did not fight the war to free slaves is documented in his own well-known words.  That he only freed slaves in states "in rebellion" hoping that they would join the union in order to keep their slaves is also a well-known fact.

You are too close emotionally to this issue.  Your emotions are leading you to support slavers and to convince yourself that they were anti-slavery.


At the time of the declaration of independence only one state had outlawed slavery so is your claim that the one free state was compromising with the twelve slave states?  That is absurd.  After the constitution was ratified there was no such thing as a free state because of the fugitive slave clause.


Quote me some founders who wrote about that.


The stinking slavers were a large fraction of the founders including Washington, Jefferson, Franklyn and Madison.


No, it was the slavers who insisted on secession.  It was the northern industrial aristocracy who controlled the Union congress and president who insisted on a war that killed more people than it freed.

You are free to construct your own version of history in which America was created by slave owners for the purpose of preserving and extending the institution of human slavery and where the governments of slave holding states were glorious heroes fighting for the "right" to keep people as livestock.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #134 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:15pm
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Billie wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:40am:
You are free to construct your own version of history in which America was created by slave owners for the purpose of preserving and extending the institution of human slavery and where the governments of slave holding states were glorious heroes fighting for the "right" to keep people as livestock.


I did not invent the fact that Washington, Jefferson, Madison and Franklyn were slavers.  I certainly did nor concoct the story that Lincoln offered southern states the right to keep being slave holders forever if they would only rejoin the Union.

You have a graphic novel understanding of American history and it is making you appear less and less informed with every post you make on this topic.


  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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kaz
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #135 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:23pm
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Billie wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:40am:
You are free to construct your own version of history in which America was created by slave owners for the purpose of preserving and extending the institution of human slavery and where the governments of slave holding states were glorious heroes fighting for the "right" to keep people as livestock.


Have you ever picked up a history book?  Actually, the framers were deeply split on slavery with many such as Adams deeply opposing it.

And the Southerners showed no fear the Brits were going to end slavery.  They were the ones who brought the slaves, actually
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Billie
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #136 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 1:33pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Have you ever picked up a history book?  Actually, the framers were deeply split on slavery with many such as Adams deeply opposing it.

And the Southerners showed no fear the Brits were going to end slavery.  They were the ones who brought the slaves, actually
Talk to burnsred if you want to, or tell me something I don't know. I've read widely on the subject.
  
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kaz
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #137 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 2:09pm
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Billie wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 1:33pm:
Talk to burnsred if you want to, or tell me something I don't know. I've read widely on the subject.


Then why did you contradict these points?   You argued the founders wanted to enshrine slavery and were afraid Britain would end it
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Billie
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #138 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 2:12pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 2:09pm:
Then why did you contradict these points?   You argued the founders wanted to enshrine slavery and were afraid Britain would end it
That seems to be the "history" you are constructing. You. Not me.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Let's Solve the Slavery Issue Once and For All
Reply #139 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 2:14pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 2:09pm:
Then why did you contradict these points?   You argued the founders wanted to enshrine slavery and were afraid Britain would end it


Such an unhappy and hatefilled little man. You remind me of some of Orwell's most undesirable characters from animal farm.
  
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