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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is Noise Aggression? (Read 846 times)
Don_G
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #10 - Dec 20th, 2017 at 1:22pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 20th, 2017 at 1:09pm:
I don't deny it. But I didn't rely on municipal government.  I allowed them to them to do their job. My property taxes pay these people.  This is what Animal Control does.  They control animals.  (And their barking pets.)

I was/am perfectly capable of restoring peace and quiet on my own.  But that would have required me to do things that no libertarian should ever be compelled to do.


You just get yourself in deeper chief. Now you're saying that you weren't capable of dealing with the issue in the two situations in an amicable way without having to resort to municipal government help.

We all can understand nuisance dog barking but I think some of us, or maybe most of us, wouldn't resort to having a person's dog taken away and euthanized most likely.

Your little tell all stories have built yourself a reputation. In the past I suspected they were bullshit stories but now I can see they're quite representative of your demeanour. You've come off as a miserable prick running around looking for trouble. So how about you attempting to dispel that perception?
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #11 - Dec 20th, 2017 at 1:29pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 20th, 2017 at 1:22pm:
We all can understand nuisance dog barking but I think some of us, or maybe most of us, wouldn't resort to having a person's dog taken away and euthanized most likely


Actually, Chief clearly advocated informing and giving the offending dog owner every chance.  Taking the dog was the last resort.  If you want a barking dog, fine.  Just ensure it doesn't affect other citizens
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #12 - Dec 20th, 2017 at 1:59pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 20th, 2017 at 1:29pm:
Actually, Chief clearly advocated informing and giving the offending dog owner every chance.  Taking the dog was the last resort.  If you want a barking dog, fine.  Just ensure it doesn't affect other citizens


I hear you and I disagree because it happened more than once. I'll leave it at that.
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #13 - Dec 20th, 2017 at 2:05pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 20th, 2017 at 1:59pm:
I hear you and I disagree because it happened more than once. I'll leave it at that.


It happened way "more than once"
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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SkyChief
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #14 - Dec 20th, 2017 at 2:10pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 20th, 2017 at 1:22pm:
You've come off as a miserable prick running around looking for trouble.

I think you're being serious - which makes it even funnier!!!    Smiley

  
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merkelstan
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #15 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 4:34am
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This is one of those questions that falls into the area of cultural norms which libertarians often don't like considering.

There's no 'right' answer to how much noise becomes an aggression.  It's dependent on cultural standards and norms.

However as Walter Block repeatedly stresses, most such disputes are resolveable by the homesteading principle.  If you build a house next to an existing airport, they already have the noise rights for the vicinity.  If an airport builds next to your house, they can't violate the quiet rights you have homesteaded.
  
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thermf5
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #16 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 5:40am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 10:47pm:
Is merely being noisy ever against the NAP?

If someone is screaming hateful things at me, is that aggression?

What if the neighbours' kids won't shut up?

What if someone has built a shooting range near my house, and the awful din goes on all day?

Is "peace and quiet" a right?

peace is caotic not quitwe and what are u a snitch no u aserting apthery over them is argresstion mind ur own bizness me my self and i then agin i can be fine live in a place where i hear gun shots all the time i would recomed u stay in [progrise suberbe and not reverce wite flight on us city rats
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #17 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 7:21am
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merkelstan wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 4:34am:
This is one of those questions that falls into the area of cultural norms which libertarians often don't like considering.

There's no 'right' answer to how much noise becomes an aggression.  It's dependent on cultural standards and norms.

However as Walter Block repeatedly stresses, most such disputes are resolveable by the homesteading principle.  If you build a house next to an existing airport, they already have the noise rights for the vicinity.  If an airport builds next to your house, they can't violate the quiet rights you have homesteaded.
What Block is calling the "homesteading principle" is mostly embodied in our common law, and most of it is common sense. If you move into a neighborhood where people are keeping horses, you don't have a right to complain about the flies and the smell and force them to get rid of their horses. If you build a house next to a dog kennel, you can't complain and force them to get rid of the dogs. If you get a dog and it barks all the time, people who live around you have a right to complain and require you to control it or get rid of it.
The common law is full of just such disputes and settlements, including disputes about blocking sunlight and polluting air and water... although the EPA claims to supersede your right to complain in court about polluted air and water and blocked sunlight.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #18 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 11:42am
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Nonsense from the mouths of pseudo-libertarians again. Complaining isn't going to resolve any problem but getting out their guns and going to shoot the offending party may work. It seems that has to be the remedy they are advocating.

What will work and does work is zoning laws enacted by GOVERNMENT and enforced by government.

This is how the Chief stooped to asking for government's help to rid him of the two barking dogs. It just takes a prick to complain and then government will come to take people's dogs from them.

Without government, would the libertarian still be standing there complaining? Or would he have shot the dog owner or the dog(s) by now?

Normal more tolerant people usually find some solution with the dog's owners.

Pseudo-libertarianism doesn't work.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #19 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 1:55pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 11:42am:
It just takes a prick to complain and then government will come to take people's dogs from them.

Without government, would the libertarian still be standing there complaining? Or would he have shot the dog owner or the dog(s) by now?

Normal more tolerant people usually find some solution with the dog's owners.

When we purchased our home, it was a peaceful, quiet neighborhood. (and we paid a substantial premium for that peace and quiet)  A few years later, when one of our neighbors rented out his house, some people moved in who obviously weren't at all concerned about peace and quiet. 

So I took the necessary (civil) steps to restore peace in our neighborhood. By demonizing me for doing the right thing, you have unwittingly revealed who the real wacko is.
  
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