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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is Noise Aggression? (Read 1110 times)
Jeff
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #110 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 4:45pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 4:40pm:
Wrong.  According to NAP, government can't do anything that you can't do.
If that is a good short description of the non-aggression principle, then piss on it.

If the NAP somehow requires anarchism, wad it up and tuck it up your ass, and I hope it has sharp corners!

Luckily, only anarchist interpreters of the NAP think the NAP requires anarchy.

Piss on them too.


  
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #111 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 4:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 4:45pm:
If that is a good short description of the non-aggression principle, then piss on it.

If the NAP somehow requires anarchism, wad it up and tuck it up your ass, and I hope it has sharp corners!


Exactly.  Yes, that was my point.  Only anarchists believe in NAP.  Anarchists love it because it removes the ability to have anything but anarchy.

Of course in reality, such a system would exist only until despots could put together their armies and invade us.  We'd either lose and be their slaves or put together an army, win, and have government again.  Either way, no anarchy.

You realize I'm arguing against NAP, not for it, right?

Jeff wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 4:45pm:
Luckily, only anarchist interpreters of the NAP think the NAP requires anarchy.

Piss on them too.




Well, since NAP was created by anarchists, ...

BTW, I pointed out that the Libertarian Party only says they believe in NAP for "social and political."  I agree with them on that.

No one says they believe in NAP across the board though except anarchists and people who don't understand it
  

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Jeff
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #112 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 5:00pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 4:50pm:
Exactly.  Yes, that was my point.  Only anarchists believe in NAP.
Utter ignorant nonsense.

The vast majority of people in the world are very happy if no one initiates aggression against them...

The really lucky one's live where initiating aggression is a crime and there is a government around to deal with the perpetrators and exact restitution if possible.

Blood feuds and tribal warfare can be avoided by such means.

Civilization may thus be preserved.
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #113 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 5:08pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 5:00pm:
The vast majority of people in the world are very happy if no one initiates aggression against them...


You just said you want to be able to sue people and get money if they harm you.  What about police, should they be able to take action if someone threatens you but hasn't attacked you?  Should we be able to take action if the blood thirsty Canadians amass on the border ready to attack us or do we have to wait until they attack?

If everyone in the world were good people, the NAP would be natural.  Here's a clue Jeff, they are not all good people ...

Also, AMF!
  

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Jeff
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #114 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 5:21pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 5:08pm:
You just said you want to be able to sue people and get money if they harm you.  What about police...
What about them?

They have some granted powers so that they can try to keep barbarians out of our communities, but they are also strictly bound by rules regarding how they are permitted to treat people.

They have wide latitude in the law, which is why it pays to be polite and cooperative.

The individual circumstances, much to lizard's dismay, are important.

Gross negligence on the part of police is gross negligence. Influence peddling and theft are illegal for them too.

The initiation of unnecessary force, or the disproportionate use of force against a threat are also crimes for anyone who does it, even police. Criminal activity under color of law is criminal activity.

Unfortunately, we have a lot of governments around these days claiming Sovereign Immunity.

They usually try to arrange things so that the Police work for them.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #115 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 6:13pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 1:44pm:
With NAP, we have no compulsory taxes, no central recognition of property ownership, no civil awards for damages or fraud, no jails or criminal courts, no roads, no management of limited resources (water, airwaves), no management of natural monopolies (energy, cable), no military, no centrally recognized police departments.

It's ANARCHY.  Hello ...


A common perception among minarchists is that while the NAP is morally correct, it is often necessary to violate it.

Many still reference the NAP first as a moral principle so that they may violate it as little as possible.

kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 4:50pm:
No one says they believe in NAP across the board though except anarchists and people who don't understand it


I believe that the NAP is morally right and that I should follow it. I'm willing to die for it.

I don't expect this of others because it's so self-destructive and impractical.

I also believe that it was discovered by people seeking to gain disproportionate personal advantage, but that's true of all morality.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #116 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 6:58am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 6:13pm:
A common perception among minarchists is that while the NAP is morally correct, it is often necessary to violate it.

No. You misunderstand.

Libertarians grant limited powers to government in order to protect rights and liberty, and do not consider that such things as taxation for courts and national defense are "aggression". Limited government is an agreed to and proven effective way to protect and preserve Liberty.

Anarchists call it aggression because they are anarchists and don't want any government at all.

  
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #117 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 1:37pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 1st, 2018 at 6:58am:
No. You misunderstand.

Libertarians grant limited powers to government in order to protect rights and liberty, and do not consider that such things as taxation for courts and national defense are "aggression". Limited government is an agreed to and proven effective way to protect and preserve Liberty.

Anarchists call it aggression because they are anarchists and don't want any government at all.



It's time that NAP is taken apart to separate the wheat from the chaff. I'll do that for you shortly when the time is right.

We're all going to work much harder on tearing down ridiculous extremist shit and saving that which is of some use to real libertarians.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #118 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 6:00pm
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Sicklers Dink wrote on Jan 1st, 2018 at 1:37pm:
It's time that NAP is taken apart to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Why?

It's clear that if you commit aggression against me or my property rights, I have the Right to file a complaint against you and collect damages...

Isn't that a great idea? And the court and police will collect for me, so I don't have to shoot you.
  
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Re: Is Noise Aggression?
Reply #119 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 6:26pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 1st, 2018 at 6:00pm:
Why?

It's clear that if you commit aggression against me or my property rights, I have the Right to file a complaint against you and collect damages...

Isn't that a great idea? And the court and police will collect for me, so I don't have to shoot you.


If you know you don't have to shoot me then I'm not afraid of you and I don't have to come to your house in the middle of the night and cut your throat, rape your wife, and then cut all of the rest of your family's throats too.

That's comforting!
  
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