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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rights are not For Everyone (Read 618 times)
kaz
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #20 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 8:58am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 28th, 2017 at 11:34pm:
Jeff has said animal abuse should be illegal when an atheist does it. He condones the same act when done for religious reasons


Maybe I need an example.  He said "for food."  Atheists can eat meat as well.

1)  Slaughtering chickens to transfer sins.  That is not "for food"

2)  Killing animals for food with religious ritual.  Jews do that, it's to kill them humanely.  I'm not aware of any such Christian rituals

Who tortures animals then eats them?  I'll agree that he did imply that killing animals for religion inhumanely is OK, but who does that?  I guess I took it as conflating killing animals inhumanely for non-food purposes
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #21 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 9:56am
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kaz wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 8:58am:
Maybe I need an example.  He said "for food."  Atheists can eat meat as well.

1)  Slaughtering chickens to transfer sins.  That is not "for food"

2)  Killing animals for food with religious ritual.  Jews do that, it's to kill them humanely.  I'm not aware of any such Christian rituals

Who tortures animals then eats them?  I'll agree that he did imply that killing animals for religion inhumanely is OK, but who does that?  I guess I took it as conflating killing animals inhumanely for non-food purposes
I don't believe and didn't mean to imply that torturing animals for religious purposes is acceptable. But as you said, who does that?

Are those people in the video supposedly transferring their sins to the chickens they are killing? What religion holds such a belief?
  
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kaz
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #22 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 11:25am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 9:56am:
Are those people in the video supposedly transferring their sins to the chickens they are killing? What religion holds such a belief?


That is a Hasidic Jew practice.  I don't believe they torture the chickens though
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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The Opposition
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #23 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 2:35pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 11:25am:
That is a Hasidic Jew practice.  I don't believe they torture the chickens though


Watch the video then.

But even then I don't care. If you judge the practice in the video to be legal for religious people, I want the same exact act legal for me.

If not you're like every other libertarian.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #24 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 2:38pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 2:35pm:
Watch the video then.

But even then I don't care. If you judge the practice in the video to be legal for religious people, I want the same exact act legal for me.

If not you're like every other libertarian.


There's a reason I've never advocated religion changes our rights as citizens.  Do you know what that reason is?

You have to as a regular poster on the board seen what I say all the time.  I constantly object to that there should be religion based Obamacare exemptions for Obamacare, free speech, anti-discrimination laws, etc.  It's because religion should have nothing to do with it.  No one should be forced to serve gays (or anyone else) for example or be forced to buy medical insurance they don't want.  Religion should have nothing to do with it.

Do you notice I'm the one who keeps agreeing with you on that, that is the libertarian view.  Then you keep saying how can I say the others who disagree with you on that are not really libertarian when they say they are?

Do you notice your shifting standard on that?
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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The Opposition
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #25 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 3:00pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
Do you notice I'm the one who keeps agreeing with you on that, that is the libertarian view.


I would like some smidgen of proof of this fact: That this is the libertarian view. I don't see a whole lot of libertarians cheering for it.

Most people who claim to be libertarians are doing it because they want special privileges - more rights than others. Egalitarianism doesn't work with libertarianism, and that's the point.

If libertarians believed in equality, what would be the point? If rights don't sneakily squeeze in personal advantage, they might as well not exist. If those two fellows in my cartoon both have the right not to be struck, no one gets any advantage from that right and there's no point to it. If neither of them wants to be struck, they can just agree to that, without using inviolable rights to force the other person.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #26 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 3:23pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 3:00pm:
Most people who claim to be libertarians are doing it because they want special privileges - more rights than others


No matter how many times you parrot that strawman, it doesn't become true.  Libertarians are far more consistent than Republicans or Democrats on that
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #27 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 4:19pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 11:25am:
That is a Hasidic Jew practice.  I don't believe they torture the chickens though
I didn't see any chickens being tortured.
What I questioned was what religion believes their sins are transferred to ritually slaughtered animals. Jews never believed that.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #28 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 4:21pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 2:35pm:
Watch the video then.

But even then I don't care. If you judge the practice in the video to be legal for religious people, I want the same exact act legal for me.

If not you're like every other libertarian.
It is. You can cut the heads off chickens in order to kill them. Anybody can. Just make sure it is your chicken.
All libertarians will tell you the same, even if they think eating meat is immoral.
  
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kaz
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Re: Rights are not For Everyone
Reply #29 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 5:06pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 4:19pm:
I didn't see any chickens being tortured


I said that in the quote that you quoted

Jeff wrote on Dec 29th, 2017 at 4:19pm:
What I questioned was what religion believes their sins are transferred to ritually slaughtered animals. Jews never believed that.


Do you have any idea what a simple Google search the answer to that question would be?
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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