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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New Trump Executive Order. (Read 425 times)
Billie
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #30 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:06am
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:30am:
So since you require an agonizingly detailed version of the point, the US Constitution only authorizes the Federal government to protect the rights of US Citizens, and then primarily ones in the United States.
There is no power granted by the Constitution to violate anyone's rights except in specific instances related to war or insurrection.

Protection of rights is not an authority granted to our government, but a duty assigned to it.

That's a proper understanding of the Constitution.
  
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Billie
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #31 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:09am
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:30am:
Do Iranian citizens have natural rights?  Sure.  But the US government is not authorized by the American people to protect them.  Get it?  No, huh ...

The U.S. government has no power to violate anyone's rights, and a general duty to protect rights. Iranians in the U.S. are safe from having our government violate their rights because the government has no power to violate anyone's rights.

Get it? No? Duh.

Edit: Here's a for instance you might be able to relate to... If someone decided to round up Iranian citizens in the U.S. and make slaves of them, our government would be obligated to protect the rights of the Iranians against the slavers, to free the Iranians and prosecute the slavers.

Get it now? No? Duh.
  
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kaz
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #32 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:16am
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Billie wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:09am:
The U.S. government has no power to violate anyone's rights, and a general duty to protect rights. Iranians in the U.S. are safe from having our government violate their rights because the government has no power to violate anyone's rights.

Get it? No? Duh.


What "rights" we extend to non-citizens under the Constitution is up to us.  If someone is visiting your house, you have the power to decide what "rights" they have.  Maybe you feed them, let them use the bathroom, sit on the sofa.  But you aren't obliged to give them a bed or pay for their cell phone.  That you are a good host doesn't mean they have the "rights" of your spouse and children.

So we grant certain protections for non-citizens.  But no, they are not citizens and aren't entitled to all the protections that citizens are entitled to.  For example, they aren't entitled to a jury trial that they are not a citizen before they are deported.  You can't pick and choose, Holmes.

Get it?
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Billie
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #33 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:36am
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:16am:
What "rights" we extend to non-citizens under the Constitution is up to us.
There you go again, talking as if government can grant Rights and decide at it's discretion to violate the rights of people it thinks don't have rights "extended" to them by our Constitution.

You just don't get it do you?
  
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kaz
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #34 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 10:19am
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Billie wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:36am:
There you go again, talking as if government can grant Rights and decide at it's discretion to violate the rights of people it thinks don't have rights "extended" to them by our Constitution.

You just don't get it do you?


Go screw yourself, word parser.  Nowhere did I say government grants rights and nowhere did I mean that.  If you want to parse words to find non-disagreements on message boards then I'm not wasting my time on you
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #35 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 11:24am
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Billie wrote on Dec 30th, 2017 at 8:22am:
Yes. Not only is our government given no power to, for instance, limit anyone's freedom of speech, it is specifically prohibited from infringing the Right to speak freely


What?  So you think government gives us our rights, Jeff?  No, actually they don't.  Government is only restricted from violating our rights.

Thinking wow, you didn't say that?  Welcome to my world dealing with you ...
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #36 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:17pm
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Rights and freedoms are totally dependent on the country in which you live. There are no rights that can be common to people of all countries.

Canada and the US did have a lot of rights in common but the US is gradually losing many of those rights and freedoms and that has caused a divided country, irrational political parties to spring up such as this one being contemplated, and a very unhappy population.

Look to Europe's more progressive countries for examples of how to begin to regain your rights.

But first it's obviously necessary to get rid of the psychopath who presumes to be your leader.
  
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kaz
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #37 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:49pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:17pm:
Look to Europe's more progressive countries for examples of how to begin to regain your rights


Smiley Smiley Smiley

The sad part is you believe that.

Thanks for showing my point so quickly though that you think true libertarians are socialists, troll
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #38 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:55pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:49pm:
Smiley Smiley Smiley

The sad part is you believe that.

Thanks for showing my point so quickly though that you think true libertarians are socialists, troll


None of those countries are socialist countries. Socialism can be defined and we hope our new member has already done that.

Those countries are capitalist countries that differ from the US in that they prefer to practice 'socially responsible capitalism'.
That's something I'm anxious to explain to our new member.

Don't hate so much kaz, it doesn't help to make any valid points. Try to make some valid points that promote libertarianism.
  
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kaz
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Re: New Trump Executive Order.
Reply #39 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:59pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:55pm:
None of those countries are socialist countries. Socialism can be defined and we hope our new member has already done that.

Those countries are capitalist countries that differ from the US in that they prefer to practice 'socially responsible capitalism'.
That's something I'm anxious to explain to our new member.

Don't hate so much kaz, it doesn't help to make any valid points. Try to make some valid points that promote libertarianism.


So you've in like 10 posts told our "new member" that libertarian isn't practical, that true libertarians are socialists and that you are promoting libertarianism.  My favorite though is that socialist Europe isn't socialist.  I did point out you actually believe that.  How far left are you?

You did demonstrate my assessment of you very effectively though, troll
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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