Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right? (Read 506 times)
SnarkySack
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 3116
Location: Republic of Me
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:54am
Print Post  
Libertarians believe that gay marriage or any kind of marriage should be "legal" simply because it's not the government's business who marries whom or how many we mary.  We are allowed to name our own next of kin, regardless of blood bonds and beyond that, marriage is primarily a religious idea.

No special "tax breaks" for being married, no incentives or disincentives.  Marriage is not the business of government, period.

All agree?



  

I used to be burnsred . . .
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6965
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #1 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 1:07am
Print Post  
No marriage should be legal. The government should not be in the marriage business.

People can make whatever agreements they like between themselves. Marriage is one of them.

If you're a male, and you want to marry another male, and you want a Catholic marriage, you might just be out of luck. The government also shouldn't force people to marry two males to each other if they don't want to.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
merkelstan
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 728
Joined: Jan 22nd, 2017
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #2 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 5:10am
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:54am:
Libertarians believe that gay marriage or any kind of marriage should be "legal" simply because it's not the government's business who marries whom or how many we mary.  We are allowed to name our own next of kin, regardless of blood bonds and beyond that, marriage is primarily a religious idea.

No special "tax breaks" for being married, no incentives or disincentives.  Marriage is not the business of government, period.

All agree?


That's basically it. 

Marriage in the west was a church institution.  Should have stayed that way.

In terms of tax breaks for married couples - screw that.  Hospital visitation priveleges for spouses? Screw that.  You name who you want to decide to pull your plug.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #3 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:53am
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:54am:
Libertarians believe that gay marriage or any kind of marriage should be "legal" simply because it's not the government's business who marries whom or how many we mary.  We are allowed to name our own next of kin, regardless of blood bonds and beyond that, marriage is primarily a religious idea.

No special "tax breaks" for being married, no incentives or disincentives.  Marriage is not the business of government, period.

All agree?



Most people marry planning to have children. Most people who marry and have children work for wages and salaries.

What are seen as "tax breaks" for people trying to raise children were in fact supposed to be exemptions from the "income" tax that would continue to ensure that working people would not be taxed on their wages and salaries unless they made "excessive" amounts of wages or really high salaries.

The question of whether married people or people with children should get a "tax break" looks at it from the wrong direction. People working for wages and salaries should not have their wages and salaries taxed as if they were "incomes". Because they are not.

Registering marriages is a useful service that government can provide, sort of like registering deeds to property, and I don't see harm in it unless the government has power to decide who can or can't marry who.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #4 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:10am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:53am:
Most people marry planning to have children. Most people who marry and have children work for wages and salaries.

What are seen as "tax breaks" for people trying to raise children were in fact supposed to be exemptions from the "income" tax that would continue to ensure that working people would not be taxed on their wages and salaries unless they made "excessive" amounts of wages or really high salaries.

The question of whether married people or people with children should get a "tax break" looks at it from the wrong direction. People working for wages and salaries should not have their wages and salaries taxed as if they were "incomes". Because they are not.

Registering marriages is a useful service that government can provide, sort of like registering deeds to property, and I don't see harm in it unless the government has power to decide who can or can't marry who.



Even Merkelstan is more libertarian than you on this one.  There's nothing wrong with your honey and you agreeing to your own civil contract to go with your church marriage.  But government perks should have no part of it.

Taxes should be flat, no one should pay a tax for dying, you should be able to have anyone you want decide when to pull the plug.  There are better solutions for every problem supposedly solved by government marriage.  We need a better way than this, a libertarian way.

Government marriage like all government programs is designed for the interest of government
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #5 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:31am
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:10am:
There's nothing wrong with your honey and you agreeing to your own civil contract to go with your church marriage.  But government perks should have no part of it.

I don't consider allowing working people to keep the fruits of their labor to be a "government perk".

Tasking the government with registering marriages is useful in the same way having the government register deeds is useful.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #6 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 10:16am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:31am:
I don't consider allowing working people to keep the fruits of their labor to be a "government perk"


So you're a "libertarian" who thinks government should not treat all it's citizens the same.  Everyone should pay lower taxes, not just people who screw and get paper saying they screw.  That's how government controls you.  They give you one perk then screw you over 10 times in return

Jeff wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 9:31am:
Tasking the government with registering marriages is useful in the same way having the government register deeds is useful.


It's useful if you're a socialist who loves government power and wants to discriminate between citizens, sure.  You are, I'm not.  That's the difference.  How's your social security welfare check these days, Jeff?  Have you thanked your kids for their money since you never saved yours to pay for it?
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SnarkySack
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 3116
Location: Republic of Me
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #7 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 11:21am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 8:53am:
Most people marry planning to have children. Most people who marry and have children work for wages and salaries.

What are seen as "tax breaks" for people trying to raise children were in fact supposed to be exemptions from the "income" tax that would continue to ensure that working people would not be taxed on their wages and salaries unless they made "excessive" amounts of wages or really high salaries.

The question of whether married people or people with children should get a "tax break" looks at it from the wrong direction. People working for wages and salaries should not have their wages and salaries taxed as if they were "incomes". Because they are not.

Registering marriages is a useful service that government can provide, sort of like registering deeds to property, and I don't see harm in it unless the government has power to decide who can or can't marry who.



Yes, the government should charge fees for registering deeds, registering civil partnership contracts and enforcing tort claims.  That is how government should get its minimal operating funds:  through fee-for-service, not theft.

You stated the argument for reducing taxes on married people without saying whether you support that position.  More of that Socratic irony?

  

I used to be burnsred . . .
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #8 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 11:27am
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 11:21am:
Yes, the government should charge fees for registering deeds, registering civil partnership contracts and enforcing tort claims.  That is how government should get its minimal operating funds:  through fee-for-service, not theft.

You stated the argument for reducing taxes on married people without saying whether you support that position.  More of that Socratic irony?



No, Jeff was advocating that government discriminate between citizens and getting a piece of saying who you're screwing should lead you to a tax break not available to other citizens.

All our problems with government if you think about it has specific roots in government discriminating between citizens.  Divide and conquer
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sicklers Dink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10544
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Reply #9 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:05pm
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Dec 31st, 2017 at 12:54am:
Libertarians believe that gay marriage or any kind of marriage should be "legal" simply because it's not the government's business who marries whom or how many we mary.


Polygamy would quickly lead to a 'more' corrupt society. Government interference in marriage is necessary for several different reasons. One of the main important reasons is for income taxation purposes.

Quote:
  We are allowed to name our own next of kin, regardless of blood bonds and beyond that, marriage is primarily a religious idea.


If people choose to let religion play a part in their marriages and lives then they're still free to do so. But that can't be to exclude government's necessary part it plays.

Quote:
No special "tax breaks" for being married, no incentives or disincentives.  Marriage is not the business of government, period.


Exemptions granted by government play a necessary role in a sound and equitable income tax system.

Quote:
All agree?


As you should have noticed by now, no two pseudo-libertarians agree with each other.

A rational agenda that could be possible for government usually brings agreement which can be built to become a government's agenda.

I've given you a few prerequisites to begin with.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › At Least All Libertarians Can Agree on Gay Marriage, Right?
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy