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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert. (Read 489 times)
The Opposition
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #30 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 1:06am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 11:16pm:
I'm not harshly criticizing Israel for protecting Jews.  I understand the historical reasons behind it.


Me too. I just want to better understand the difference between protecting Jews and protecting whites in exactly the same way.

I'm not trolling. I'm not implying the latter is okay - far from it.

I just want to know why.
  

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Billie
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #31 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 7:33am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
See how you just get mad and call people ignorant when people are trying to understand?
I wasn't angry, I was just identifying a lie that has it's basis in ignorance. Israel is not a "racist" state because they allow any Jews to become citizens.
  
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #32 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 7:36am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 11:16pm:
So Hitler was not a racist because he hated Jews of all races?
Hitler wanted to eliminate or enslave anyone who didn't conform to his idea of a "pure Aryan". That included lots of non-Jews, but has nothing at all to do with Israel offering sanctuary and citizenship to any Jews.
  
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #33 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 7:43am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 11:16pm:
Call the way the Israelis treat non-Jews and Jews who are not "Jewish enough" whatever you want.  It is religious discrimination and no matter what benefits it provides, it violates one of the key principles of libertarianism which is to judge individuals by their merit rather than by their demographic grouping.
Religious discrimination is what only Communist and some Islamic States do these days. Israel does not forbid or exclude other religions. They have a different standard for becoming a citizen for Jews than they do for non-Jews, which isn't any worse than offering sanctuary and citizenship to people from African or Islamic countries who are being systematically persecuted or eliminated.


  
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Billie
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #34 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 7:54am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 11:16pm:
Under my idea that we cut off support for nations in reverse order of how much gratitude they show for our support means that Israel will the be last nation left swinging in the breeze.  But if we are libertarian, we must eventually let them stand or fall on their own.
My idea of "libertarian" includes taking practical steps to try to protect and preserve individual liberty for the maximum number of people, something I believe will become very difficult here if the U.S. is the only free country left in the world.
I know it's not "pure" libertarian, and I agree that foreign entanglements are a slippery slope to fighting foreign wars, and I hate wealth transfers to other governments as much as I hate wealth transfers to crony businesses.

At the least, we can stand up verbally to people who demonize Israel and seek to annihilate them.

In any case, without the limited Constitutional government we are supposed to have, libertarians can't really do anything other than that about foreign policy.
  
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #35 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 7:58am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 6th, 2018 at 1:06am:
Me too. I just want to better understand the difference between protecting Jews and protecting whites in exactly the same way.

Try thinking of it as protecting people who have historically been murdered wholesale and discriminated against by governments almost everywhere at virtually every time in history and who are once again, today, being painted as scapegoats for government failures.

If that had happened, and was happening, to "white" people", there would be good reason to offer special sanctuary to "white" people.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #36 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 3:31pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 6th, 2018 at 7:58am:
Try thinking of it as protecting people who have historically been murdered wholesale and discriminated against by governments almost everywhere at virtually every time in history and who are once again, today, being painted as scapegoats for government failures.

If that had happened, and was happening, to "white" people", there would be good reason to offer special sanctuary to "white" people.


This is a good answer.

However, some people believe it is happening because of the simple fact that everyone else is favoured somewhere and whites are not favoured anywhere.

In countries with large white populations, other races are favoured for various reasons. Some are anti-discrimination countermeasures and some are pro-immigrant policies.

In countries with small or no white populations, either by race or by religion, they are unfavoured and stand below the indigenous population.
  

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Billie
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #37 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 4:09pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 6th, 2018 at 3:31pm:
This is a good answer.

However, some people believe it is happening because of the simple fact that everyone else is favoured somewhere and whites are not favoured anywhere.


fooch
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #38 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 4:47pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 6th, 2018 at 7:43am:
Religious discrimination is what only Communist and some Islamic States do these days. Israel does not forbid or exclude other religions. They have a different standard for becoming a citizen for Jews than they do for non-Jews, which isn't any worse than offering sanctuary and citizenship to people from African or Islamic countries who are being systematically persecuted or eliminated.

Completely different situations.

A Jew moving from Manhattan, New York or even Manhattan Kansas to a settlement on the West Bank is more likely to be targeted by ethnic violence than if he had stayed home.  So there is no sanctuary being offered to them, but rather a chance to help change the demographics of that region enough that Israel can claim ownership.  I don't know of any nation that is offering instant citizenship to Africans or Muslims who enter their land for sanctuary.

You can say that there are good reasons to treat one religion with such strong preference over all others.  That disparate treatment was the purpose for which Israel was founded in the first place.  I understand why the Jews want a homeland, and why they want to reserve it for Jews.   

But let's not lie to ourselves and say it isn't discrimination.

  

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Re: UN Secretary-General Puts World on Red Alert.
Reply #39 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 5:01pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 6th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Completely different situations.

A Jew moving from Manhattan, New York or even Manhattan Kansas to a settlement on the West Bank is more likely to be targeted by ethnic violence than if he had stayed home.  So there is no sanctuary being offered to them, but rather a chance to help change the demographics of that region enough that Israel can claim ownership.  I don't know of any nation that is offering instant citizenship to Africans or Muslims who enter their land for sanctuary.

You can say that there are good reasons to treat one religion with such strong preference over all others.  That disparate treatment was the purpose for which Israel was founded in the first place.  I understand why the Jews want a homeland, and why they want to reserve it for Jews.   

But let's not lie to ourselves and say it isn't discrimination.

fooch
  
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