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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol? (Read 632 times)
Billie
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #10 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:52pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:42pm:
I saw one that had a cigarette butt in it! I think it might happen in all bottling plants.
You're saying that all the health and safety and consumer protection regulations in "progressive" Canada are inadequate to protect consumers? Probably you need a specific regulation that prohibits bottling plant workers from putting cigarette butts in beer, and another specific regulation that requires each 12oz. bottle to have 12oz. of beer in it.

And BTW, there was a second bottle in the six pack that had about 8oz. of Molson in it, and another bottle in another six pack of Molson's one of my friends bought about a month ago that was only half full...

I'm chalking it up as a failure of "progressive" government in Canada.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #11 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 1:22pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:52pm:
You're saying that all the health and safety and consumer protection regulations in "progressive" Canada are inadequate to protect consumers? Probably you need a specific regulation that prohibits bottling plant workers from putting cigarette butts in beer, and another specific regulation that requires each 12oz. bottle to have 12oz. of beer in it.

And BTW, there was a second bottle in the six pack that had about 8oz. of Molson in it, and another bottle in another six pack of Molson's one of my friends bought about a month ago that was only half full...

I'm chalking it up as a failure of "progressive" government in Canada.


Where was the Molson's bottled? Check the label and don't lie to me because I'll know if you do.

And why would you buy Molson's Canadian? You have poor taste, at least by Canadian standards.

Try Sleeman's Honey Brown.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #12 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 1:50pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:24pm:
You know some of the ways that have been attempted. Start a discussion on them and whether they work to any degree or not.

I'll start it but I won't invest much into it without your participation.

In Canada we don't allow alcohol advertising on t.v.

So, is there evidence that banning such commercials has the desired effect?  We ban liquor and wine adds on tv in the US(except late night or that was the case a few years ago) I don't know of any evidence that that has reduced consumption at all. 

Edit wine not win.  Typos sorry.  I think beer commercials are still ok but I don't watch commercial TV.  There were weird rules about those even, actors couldn't be seen drinking for instance.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #13 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 1:59pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 1:50pm:
So, is there evidence that banning such commercials has the desired effect?  We ban liquor and win adds on tv in the US(except late night or that was the case a few years ago) I don't know of any evidence that that has reduced consumption at all. 


Win adds on t.v?

I think that banning ads has an effect on lowering alcohol consumption in Canada. And I think that higher taxation of alcohol also has an effect. The latter is a very desirable form of taxation in my opinion.

Do you ban alcohol ads on t.v?

We also ban tobacco ads and I'm totally in favour of that. Also higher taxes on  tobacco products.

Alcohol consumption is the issue but let's not avoid talking about socially responsible treatment of the issue by government. Otherwise we're going nowhere with the conversation. Are you ready to talk about that yet?
  
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ahhell
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #14 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:23pm
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https://vinepair.com/articles/why-no-liquor-ads-tv/

Interesting, the ban on liquor ads was voluntary and the first liquor to break it was a brand of Candadian (not rye) whisky.  I don't really watch commercial tv anymore but I don't think I've ever seen a liquor or wine ad on tv.  Only beer and wine cooler/malt beverage ads. 

Anyrate, what makes you think such bans actually work, is there evidence?

Up to a point taxation does reduce consumption but if you tax too much then you just create a black market.  Keep mind that consumption taxes of anykind are regressive, they hurt the poor more than the rich. 

Mildly amusing side not regarding alcohol advertising.  I still remember the Hamms ads from my youth, they were clearly targeting children.  They had a catchy tune and cartoon bear skiing and what not. 

Edit to add:
Its funny, we've also banned tabbacco ads from almost everywhere.  That would be evidence that such bans work but we've also raised taxes and run decades of anti smoking propaganda.  So, which actually reduced smoking?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #15 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:38pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:23pm:
https://vinepair.com/articles/why-no-liquor-ads-tv/

Interesting, the ban on liquor ads was voluntary and the first liquor to break it was a brand of Candadian (not rye) whisky.  I don't really watch commercial tv anymore but I don't think I've ever seen a liquor or wine ad on tv.  Only beer and wine cooler/malt beverage ads. 

Anyrate, what makes you think such bans actually work, is there evidence?


I might do some research on it.

Quote:
Up to a point taxation does reduce consumption but if you tax too much then you just create a black market.


Agreed.

Quote:
  Keep mind that consumption taxes of anykind are regressive, they hurt the poor more than the rich. 


It's probably a wise tradeoff. Ask me why or figure it out for yourself and let me know your conclusions. I equate it to lotteries in some ways.

Quote:
Mildly amusing side not regarding alcohol advertising.  I still remember the Hamms ads from my youth, they were clearly targeting children.  They had a catchy tune and cartoon bear skiing and what not. 


I have no problem with friendly discussion as long as I don't get burnt by taking part. So we'll see with you. I know better with Jeff.

Quote:
Edit to add:
Its funny, we've also banned tabbacco ads from almost everywhere.  That would be evidence that such bans work but we've also raised taxes and run decades of anti smoking propaganda.  So, which actually reduced smoking?


Smoking has hugely declined in Canada and I suspect to the same degree in the US. Less so in Europe and that could be interesting to explore why. My opinion is that in some way or another the health aspect being brought to people's attention is the reason. How the message got out? Several different sources you may be aware of.

This becomes interesting from a libertarian POV too. We're in the midst of questioning the wisdom of preventing advertising on alcohol and tobacco and we need to take into account how that jibes or doesn't jibe with the libertarian agenda. I don't see a problem but I think some others will.
You?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #16 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:40pm
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What I'm curious about is whether cocaine or heroin was illegal before prohibition.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #17 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:49pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:40pm:
What I'm curious about is whether cocaine or heroin was illegal before prohibition.
Good questions, I know the war on drugs didn't really get going until the end of prohibition.  Some of the prohibition era bureaucrats lobbied for it to ensure job security, I don't know if they were banned prior to that.

Naturally, there's a wiki page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_drug_prohibition


Don_G wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:38pm:
This becomes interesting from a libertarian POV too. We're in the midst of questioning the wisdom of preventing advertising on alcohol and tobacco and we need to take into account how that jibes or doesn't jibe with the libertarian agenda. I don't see a problem but I think some others will.
You?
I'm ambivalent about it.  Government funded propaganda has had a positive effect in this case.  But the 20th century is full of examples of government propaganda having very bad effects.  As always, giving government power is double edged.
  
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #18 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 3:06pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:49pm:
I'm ambivalent about it.  Government funded propaganda has had a positive effect in this case.  But the 20th century is full of examples of government propaganda having very bad effects.  As always, giving government power is double edged.


That sounds quite reasonable.
  
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #19 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 3:21pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Good questions, I know the war on drugs didn't really get going until the end of prohibition.  Some of the prohibition era bureaucrats lobbied for it to ensure job security, I don't know if they were banned prior to that.

Naturally, there's a wiki page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_drug_prohibition


I don't this it's just the US. I remember drugs being mentioned in the Sherlock Holmes novels. The main character occasionally used cocaine (injectable cocaine is not as bad as snortable crack) and opium dens are also mentioned.

It seems like since then, the whole world up and got itself in a whole lot of anti-druggery.

There was probably a good reason, which I would be interested in hearing about. In order to understand what works, we have to understand what doesn't, and why. Was the world misled, captured by cronyism, or were there serious problems people couldn't solve another way?
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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