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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol? (Read 507 times)
ahhell
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #20 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 3:30pm
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The short answer that is a bit conspiracyish but is close to the truth, the US bullied much of the world into banning drugs.  In the US there's a none negligible connection between prohibition of  drugs and racism.  The first anti-drug legislation was aimed at Chinese opium dens and Nixon aimed much of the war on drugs at people who voted against him, blacks.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #21 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 4:54pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 3:30pm:
The short answer that is a bit conspiracyish but is close to the truth, the US bullied much of the world into banning drugs.  In the US there's a none negligible connection between prohibition of  drugs and racism.  The first anti-drug legislation was aimed at Chinese opium dens and Nixon aimed much of the war on drugs at people who voted against him, blacks.
I think it's true that our government bullied the world into banning drugs and then often facilitated the production and distribution of them. I'm not allowed to give details about that.

You can't discount the influence of Puritan style moralizers who really just want to imprison or kill anybody who ingests anything that makes them feel good. They too are always with us, and have caused huge human suffering trying to force people to their standards of morality when no one was being wronged. It's the "progressive" Puritans who also like a work ethic and honesty and limited government, they only want a bit more than really limited government, they want the government to tell me I can't choose or use recreational drugs, while at the same time they gobble prescription drugs to make themselves feel good.

My theory about the intentions of the early drug prohibiting Puritans was that they were so "progressive" that they understood that they could use the already demonized Chinese as a foil to get a nose under the tent establishing the precedent for the power to control everything.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #22 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 8:17pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 11:25am:
Responsible government would advise less use and more responsible use of alcohol, then take measures to attempt to make it happen.

Refer to other countries for ways to do that.


You should be more specific when you lecture the U.S. to be more like other countries.  You did that with Norway's prison system and you were exactly correct:  the U.S. should keep violent felons locked up indefinitely until they are judged to be rehabilitated.

So whose policies on alcohol should we emulate?

  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #23 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 10:21pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 3:30pm:
The short answer that is a bit conspiracyish but is close to the truth, the US bullied much of the world into banning drugs.  In the US there's a none negligible connection between prohibition of  drugs and racism.  The first anti-drug legislation was aimed at Chinese opium dens and Nixon aimed much of the war on drugs at people who voted against him, blacks.


I don't doubt it.

I wonder though if there's any connection between population explosion and the necessity of banning drugs.

When you live like sardines, it's easy for that druggo to take all the other sardines down with him, even if they're upstanding. It's a problem with how we live. Just letting your neighbour do as he likes is fine if you've got a good deal of distance between you. If not, it's likely his actions will affect you, perhaps even worse than they affect him.
  

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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #24 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 10:32pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 3:30pm:
The short answer that is a bit conspiracyish but is close to the truth, the US bullied much of the world into banning drugs.  In the US there's a none negligible connection between prohibition of  drugs and racism.  The first anti-drug legislation was aimed at Chinese opium dens and Nixon aimed much of the war on drugs at people who voted against him, blacks.


There is no doubt that U.S. anti-drug laws are rooted in part in racism.  However, the larger truth is that all victimless "crime" laws are intended to perpetuate a system in which the government bans things that are very much in demand in order to ensure that those who indulge in them or profit from them will be willing to pay bribes to maintain their profitable business. 

The bribe-seekers milked all they could from prohibition and then realized that the people wouldn't stand for it any more.  So they decided to repeal it rather than overturn the system of pretend democracy.


  
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Don_G
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #25 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:09pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 3:30pm:
The short answer that is a bit conspiracyish but is close to the truth, the US bullied much of the world into banning drugs.  In the US there's a none negligible connection between prohibition of  drugs and racism.  The first anti-drug legislation was aimed at Chinese opium dens and Nixon aimed much of the war on drugs at people who voted against him, blacks.


interesting concept but are you sure you're describing racism with the Nixon example? I can see that being true of Nixon even absent any racist feelings.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #26 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:12pm
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Prohibition was a terrible idea.  Many Americans lost their lives because the government poisoned the alcohol. Its estimated that over 10,000 Americans died from government poisoning.

https://www.alcoholproblemsandsolutions.org/deaths-during-prohibition/

It's ironic that marijuana was not illegal during Prohibition [1920-1933].  Marijuana was criminalized in 1937 when Congress passed the Marijuana Tax Act.

Gee - didn't the government learn any lessons from Prohibition?  Are they dense?
  
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ahhell
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #27 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 2:09pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:09pm:
interesting concept but are you sure you're describing racism with the Nixon example? I can see that being true of Nixon even absent any racist feelings.

Sort of chicken and egg thing isn't it.  I suspect Nixon was more concerned about political opponents than the race of those opponents but the results are basically the same. 

To be fair, the evidence for this is just hearsay from a dead guy but its believable and there's lots other evidence for how race and racism has played into the drug war.  Banning opium targeted in Chinese in the 1800s, banning pot targeted at Mexicans in the early 1900s, and the Drug war's connection to mass incarceration and its disproportionate effect on Black Americans.
  
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #28 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 4:16pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 2:09pm:
Sort of chicken and egg thing isn't it.  I suspect Nixon was more concerned about political opponents than the race of those opponents but the results are basically the same. 

To be fair, the evidence for this is just hearsay from a dead guy but its believable and there's lots other evidence for how race and racism has played into the drug war.  Banning opium targeted in Chinese in the 1800s, banning pot targeted at Mexicans in the early 1900s, and the Drug war's connection to mass incarceration and its disproportionate effect on Black Americans. 
What I learned in High School history was that the Chinese brought opium into America and lots of Wives and Mothers and Fathers thought it was a bad thing to do, hang around opium dens. We also learned that the Mexicans brought pot with them, and the Wives etc. thought the same thing about hanging around pool halls and bars and getting high on pot and cheap wine.
It wasn't until I read history on my own that I learned that Negros brought cocaine and speed into our cities to complement the marijuana they adopted from the Mexicans. Then gangs fought over markets for the drugs they were bringing in. Tongs didn't have to be created in Chinese communities, they went with them everywhere.
Mexicans weren't as large scale organized as the tongs, but they did have plenty of criminal gangs already, and some of them came with the drugs.
The inner city black gangs were created by illegal drugs and that's what sustains them. That and the "welfare" they extort from the girls they get pregnant.

Did I learn "racist" history? I don't see how.

  
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Don_G
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Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #29 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 6:30pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 4:16pm:
What I learned in High School history was that the Chinese brought opium into America and lots of Wives and Mothers and Fathers thought it was a bad thing to do, hang around opium dens. We also learned that the Mexicans brought pot with them, and the Wives etc. thought the same thing about hanging around pool halls and bars and getting high on pot and cheap wine.
It wasn't until I read history on my own that I learned that Negros brought cocaine and speed into our cities to complement the marijuana they adopted from the Mexicans. Then gangs fought over markets for the drugs they were bringing in. Tongs didn't have to be created in Chinese communities, they went with them everywhere.
Mexicans weren't as large scale organized as the tongs, but they did have plenty of criminal gangs already, and some of them came with the drugs.
The inner city black gangs were created by illegal drugs and that's what sustains them. That and the "welfare" they extort from the girls they get pregnant.

Did I learn "racist" history? I don't see how.



Trouble! With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for POOL!

You might not have learned it in school by you sure did learn it somewhere. Do you have a local chapter of the KKK in you neighbourhood?
  
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