Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol? (Read 637 times)
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9318
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #50 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 1:03pm
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Jan 7th, 2018 at 4:05pm:
Your assertion that there have been no homicides in Europe is bizarrely counter-factual.  Between 1935 and 1945, more than seventy million people were murdered by the National Socialists of Germany and the international socialists of the Soviet Union.



Good one burnsred!

Here's another good one for you. In the US the people murdered their brothers and sisters who chose to take the opposite side in your civil war. And all over a disagreement on slavery!

However, if we return to the present then we will see that all US counties experience murders by gun and Europe does too but to a very much lesser extent.

Is Europe's gun murder rate higher or lower than the US country with the lowest murder by gun rate? Maybe Jeff will research that one for us?

edit: about 620,000 soldiers alone died in our civil war. Surely we can round that off to a couple of million if we include civilians who died directly from the causes of war and indirectly too.

But I wonder why we would want to revisit that war in this conversation?

Because the facts aren't convenient to burnsred on current gun murders in the US? 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SnarkySack
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2830
Location: Republic of Me
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #51 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 3:11pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
Good one burnsred!

Here's another good one for you. In the US the people murdered their brothers and sisters who chose to take the opposite side in your civil war. And all over a disagreement on slavery!


It was actually a disagreement over the power of the federal government, which fully supported slavery of African-Americans, and also wanted to keep southern states enslaved to the Union.
Quote:
However, if we return to the present then we will see that all US counties experience murders by gun and Europe does too but to a very much lesser extent.

Is Europe's gun murder rate higher or lower than the US country with the lowest murder by gun rate? Maybe Jeff will research that one for us?


You only want to talk about gun murders?  Why would you leave out the hundred million murders by starvation under European socialism.

Quote:
edit: about 620,000 soldiers alone died in our civil war. Surely we can round that off to a couple of million if we include civilians who died directly from the causes of war and indirectly too.


Yes, that is very true.  I wish the Union had not chosen to prosecute that war.

Quote:
But I wonder why we would want to revisit that war in this conversation?
IDK.  You brought it up.

Quote:
Because the facts aren't convenient to burnsred on current gun murders in the US? 


Which are so much higher in counties with strictest gun laws.  What was your explanation for that?

  

I used to be burnsred . . .
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billie
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 28422
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #52 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 3:19pm
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
It was actually a disagreement over the power of the federal government, which fully supported slavery of African-Americans, and also wanted to keep southern states enslaved to the Union.



You should read this article from the Libertarian Encyclopedia-

https://www.libertarianism.org/encyclopedia/abolitionism
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billie
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 28422
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #53 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 3:22pm
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
Yes, that is very true.  I wish the Union had not chosen to prosecute that war.


It was inevitable. The Constitution of the CSA dedicated that new nation to the preservation and expansion of slavery.
They had nowhere to expand into except Mexico or U.S. Territories... Maybe they would have chosen Mexico?
Then why were they actively trying to make Kansas, Missouri and New Mexico into slave states prior to the start of the Civil War?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AlayneLeung
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 510
Joined: Mar 20th, 2015
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #54 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 5:33pm
Print Post  
Jeff, 2nd degree murder (in Missouri at least) is defined as murder in the heat of the moment (that murder is caused by choice but not preplanned).  When a person, that is drunk from drinking alcohol, kills another person because of careless driving/or careless piloting, then that person that was drunk is assumed to have chosen to drink alcohol and thus that person that was drunk and killed is to assumed to have chosen callous disregard for any death(s) that drunk person caused. 

Yes, there are callous persons that disregard safety when they covertly put alcohol in drink(s) that others drink.  My advice for those latter persons: don't drink any drink that isn't yours to avoid getting drunk.  Also, the Constitution does say that the enumeration of certain rights shall not prohibit other rights retained by the people (such as right to life as stated in the Declaration of Independence); Congress can theoretically therefore impose that $100M punishment on drunk person(s) that not necessarily respectively kill other person(s). 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9318
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #55 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 6:09pm
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
It was actually a disagreement over the power of the federal government, which fully supported slavery of African-Americans, and also wanted to keep southern states enslaved to the Union.

You only want to talk about gun murders?  Why would you leave out the hundred million murders by starvation under European socialism.


Yes, that is very true.  I wish the Union had not chosen to prosecute that war.

IDK.  You brought it up.


Which are so much higher in counties with strictest gun laws.  What was your explanation for that?


You and Jeff go ahead with your circle jerk. I'll just add this because it's quick and easy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3300728

Why do you think that's true burnsred. No hurry for an answer while you're busy learning all over again that your civil war was caused by the south not letting go of slavery.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SnarkySack
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2830
Location: Republic of Me
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #56 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 6:41pm
Print Post  
Billie wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
It was inevitable. The Constitution of the CSA dedicated that new nation to the preservation and expansion of slavery.
They had nowhere to expand into except Mexico or U.S. Territories... Maybe they would have chosen Mexico?
Then why were they actively trying to make Kansas, Missouri and New Mexico into slave states prior to the start of the Civil War?


So you're theory is that Lincoln and the Republican congress only authorized war because they were pre-empting the CSA from attacking the US to expand slavery?  If nothing else, that theory has the virtue of being unique,  You can copyright it because no other historian has ever mentioned it.  No one in that time expressed that in writing.

Since you are the worlds foremost (and only) expert on that particular rewrite of history, let me ask a few questions:

If the union were fighting against the expansion of slavery, why would they invite the states in rebellion to keep their slaves by rejoining the U.S?  Would that not have been an expansion of slavery if, for example, Alabama had rejoined and kept its slaves like KY, MD, DE and MO? 

Why did Lincoln exempt counties in Virginia which were already occupied and in which slaves could have been freed?  For those slaves in Virginia and North Carolina who were freed, would they not have been re-enslaved if those states rejoined the union?  If your answer is no, justify it in light of the Union's use of slaves in union states.



 
  

I used to be burnsred . . .
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9318
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #57 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:00pm
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 6:41pm:
So you're theory is that Lincoln and the Republican congress only authorized war because they were pre-empting the CSA from attacking the US to expand slavery?  If nothing else, that theory has the virtue of being unique,  You can copyright it because no other historian has ever mentioned it.  No one in that time expressed that in writing.

Since you are the worlds foremost (and only) expert on that particular rewrite of history, let me ask a few questions:

If the union were fighting against the expansion of slavery, why would they invite the states in rebellion to keep their slaves by rejoining the U.S?  Would that not have been an expansion of slavery if, for example, Alabama had rejoined and kept its slaves like KY, MD, DE and MO? 

Why did Lincoln exempt counties in Virginia which were already occupied and in which slaves could have been freed?  For those slaves in Virginia and North Carolina who were freed, would they not have been re-enslaved if those states rejoined the union?  If your answer is no, justify it in light of the Union's use of slaves in union states.



 


See Jeff about the point he's already made and proven. And don't try to twist it into some other talking point because he's going to catch it.

Otherwise, it's simple. The civil war was over slavery and the south wouldn't let go of slavery so Americans had to slaughter a couple of million Americans. Did I miss any important facts?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billie
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 28422
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #58 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:01pm
Print Post  
SnarkySack wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 6:41pm:
So you're theory is that Lincoln and the Republican congress only authorized war because they were pre-empting the CSA from attacking the US to expand slavery?

The war was inevitable. Before Lincoln was elected the slave states were using violence to try to extend slavery further in North America.

Had Lincoln and Congress done nothing, the free states would have continued fighting the CSA over U.S. territory.

Lincoln was likely to have viewed secession by people who were already fighting for slavery and threatening Union troops as an insurrection, especially after they attacked Ft. Sumter.

The actions of the Union were reactive rather than preemptive, but the war over slavery was inevitable.

Did you read the essay on abolitionism?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9318
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Reply #59 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:08pm
Print Post  
Billie wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
The war was inevitable. Before Lincoln was elected the slave states were using violence to try to extend slavery further in North America.

Had Lincoln and Congress done nothing, the free states would have continued fighting the CSA over U.S. territory.

Lincoln was likely to have viewed secession by people who were already fighting for slavery and threatening Union troops as an insurrection, especially after they attacked Ft. Sumter.

The actions of the Union were reactive rather than preemptive, but the war over slavery was inevitable.

Did you read the essay on abolitionism?


Burnsred is hedfuked on the civil war. He's all yours!

And if your ass is as sweet as I know you keep it, you're draw his racist motive out of him.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Why did We Need an Amendment to Ban Alcohol?
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy