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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area! (Read 305 times)
ahhell
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #10 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:26am
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The plural of anecdotes is not evidence.   I've literally seen people mugged no where near a casino.   That must mean you are wrong.

You could actually look at crime rates in various cities in America, I'd be pretty surprised if Las Vegas was particularly high.  Within CA, crime rates are highest in areas far from casinos, how does one explain that?
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #11 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:56am
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Don_G wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 12:23pm:
Police in your country are too busy with other crimes and corruption and so have to gradually ignore more minor crime and corruption.
You admitted that you're from Jersey, remember?  But, yes.  Police are, or should be, too busy with real crime to round up poker players.  Which is why the laws against playing cards is absurd.  Stems from the days in which they were called "the Devil's tools."


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Encouraging gambling for some sort of erroneous sense of freedom is the opposite of being socially responsible.

Are the social ills caused by gambling worse than the AIDS epidemic which is caused by encouraging gay sex?

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You've no doubt noticed that most of those who have responded to taking your bait have expressed that in slightly different words.


I never accused you of originality, Don.


  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Don_G
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #12 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:31pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:56am:
You admitted that you're from Jersey, remember?


Yes, I remember.

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  But, yes.  Police are, or should be, too busy with real crime to round up poker players.


Corrected for you, because there is too much vicious and violent crime on the police's plate for them to deal with crime that is dealt with properly in the world's happiest countries. (adopting Norway's prison system is the exact right answer)

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  Which is why the laws against playing cards gambling is absurd.  Stems from the days in which they were called "the Devil's tools."


Laws that forbid gambling in certain places and situations are good laws. Jeff understands that too!


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Are the social ills caused by gambling worse than the AIDS epidemic which is caused by encouraging gay sex?


So besides being very angry which causes you to bitch and complain all the time about your government, now you are suggesting that you're homophobic too!

You're always going to be an extreme rightist burnsred my friend and you're going to reveal it as you continue to slip up and voice your true feelings. Granted, you are a beginner to being a libertarian and so you're not good at lying bullshit yet.





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Billie
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #13 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:35pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:31pm:
Laws that forbid gambling in certain places and situations are good laws. Jeff understands that too!






They are foolish laws, not "good". Humans like to gamble. Always have and always will. Not everybody, but enough that they will always find ways to gamble.
Why is it a good idea to make criminals out of people? Prosecute people who cheat while gambling. That makes good sense.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #14 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 2:13pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:35pm:
They are foolish laws, not "good". Humans like to gamble. Always have and always will. Not everybody, but enough that they will always find ways to gamble.
Why is it a good idea to make criminals out of people? Prosecute people who cheat while gambling. That makes good sense.


Your arguments are below your own dignity now.

I will take you seriously for a trial period when you try to be serious. But only for a trial period. Go ahead and set the tone.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #15 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:07pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:35pm:
They are foolish laws, not "good". Humans like to gamble. Always have and always will. Not everybody, but enough that they will always find ways to gamble.
Why is it a good idea to make criminals out of people? Prosecute people who cheat while gambling. That makes good sense.


No, don't make them into criminals. That's ridiculous. But from a practicality standpoint, yes make them do it away from others.

Our little gambling town up in the mountains is the perfect solution. Anyone who wants to gamble can go there. The bus ride is $60, so people can't just turn around and put their last $10 in the slots, creating poverty everyone has to deal with.

ahhell wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:26am:
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence.   I've literally seen people mugged no where near a casino.   That must mean you are wrong.


The fact that everyone knew this was a bad area where cars would get broken into for spare change leads me to believe I'm right.

ahhell wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:26am:
You could actually look at crime rates in various cities in America, I'd be pretty surprised if Las Vegas was particularly high.  Within CA, crime rates are highest in areas far from casinos, how does one explain that? 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

Las Vegas is fairly high up on the list, but I admit that you're not going to get fair results because it's also very highly populated, and the #1 factor in crime will always be population, so after being normalised for population, Las Vegas would probably be lower. However, note that Henderson also has casino resorts, a lower population, and is even higher on the list.

Libertarianism is based on a working principle: Let people do what they like, and the ones who choose poorly will simply fail.

It doesn't work quite as well as advertised in such an overpopulated world. People who can't control themselves somehow get along, manage to breed, all the while becoming serious hazards for those who choose responsibly, often to the degree of costing those people their reproductive success.

Poor people breed easily. Whether government or private charity, someone will help them; they're needy. Working people need every dime and might miss the chance if someone steals their car or ransacks their house.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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ahhell
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #16 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:38pm
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The fact is that everyone knows crime rates are higher now than it was 20 years ago*, the fact is also that crime rates are lower than they were 20 years ago. Common knowledge is often wrong.  Looking at the wiki article, it doesn't really look like there's much of a correlation between gambling and other crime.

*everybody in this case is really just most people.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perceptions-of-crime-cont...
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #17 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:52pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
The fact is that everyone knows crime rates are higher now than it was 20 years ago*, the fact is also that crime rates are lower than they were 20 years ago. Common knowledge is often wrong.  Looking at the wiki article, it doesn't really look like there's much of a correlation between gambling and other crime.


You're comparing something people have no firsthand knowledge of to something they need to know, or they'll be robbed. People know the bad areas in their own towns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/10/30/studies-casinos-bring-job...
Quote:
Other work backs up the crime finding. The Baylor's Earl Grinols, University of Georgia's David Mustard, and the University of Illinois' Cynthia Dilley found that 8 percent of crime in counties with casinos was attributable to their presence, a crime increase that cost residents, on average, $65 a year.


Here's the actual study because I don't trust the source any more than you do.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=233792

But I don't need this argument. We know that some people can't control themselves. We also both know that when an addict needs their fix, they're not in their right mind. They become desperate and social norms no longer apply - in other words, they may steal. They're more likely to steal than someone in their right mind, and people do get addicted to gambling.

In a perfect world this wouldn't be an issue because crime wouldn't pay. In our world, crime does pay. Most crimes go unsolved and the perpetrator is never punished. You can say private courts would work better, but even private investigators can't solve a crime without anything to go on. The population is too large, the anonymity too great, and the robber simply disappears into the crowd.

The real problem is that the expected value of crime is positive. Everyone should steal, logically and not morally speaking of course. The only thing that keeps society from crumbling is our delicate social norms that do crumble when people are addicted.

Again, morally, gambling everywhere. Practically speaking, gambling in isolated places, so people who don't want to gamble can be away from the unrest it creates.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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ahhell
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #18 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:57pm
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I won't admit I was wrong because I was only really asking for evidence that gambling increases crime.  You have provided that evidence, thank you.
  
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Billie
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Re: Gambling is Legal in the Houston Area!
Reply #19 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 4:23pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:07pm:
No, don't make them into criminals. That's ridiculous. But from a practicality standpoint, yes make them do it away from others.

If I don't want people gambling in my house, I will forbid it...

Which "others" should we stay away from if we do decide to gamble?
  
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