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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet? (Read 1280 times)
Don_G
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #10 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 11:55am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:34am:
You have it right that charity does not cure poverty.



That's why I keep telling you people that socially responsible government would cure US poverty.

The problem has to be attacked at it's source, not continuing to put a band-aid on poverty in the US south especially. The most happy countries in the world face the problem with socially responsible government which eliminates the poverty before it become of epidemic proportions. That's different from throwing your money at people so  they can buy their kids some big macs for dinner.

This sort of reasoning spins off to Europe's rejection of GMO's out of caution. They have a reputation of making good choices and Americans can't quite handle that.
  
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Billie
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #11 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:46pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 11:55am:
That's why I keep telling you people that socially responsible government would cure US poverty.


That's what we are trying to tell you, if our government would stop stealing from working people and re-distributing our wealth to others, there would be a lot more wealth to go around.

BTW, there isn't any poverty in the U.S. unless it's what people have chosen for themselves, there just isn't nearly as much wealth as there could be.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #12 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 2:06pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:46pm:
That's what we are trying to tell you, if our government would stop stealing from working people and re-distributing our wealth to others, there would be a lot more wealth to go around.


In truth, you are benefitting from the distribution of wealth from more wealthy people. That's a good thing because you worked hard to contribute to the wealth of your country and now you're getting your share back. it was a government run insurance policy and it prevented a lot of poverty.

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BTW, there isn't any poverty in the U.S. unless it's what people have chosen for themselves, there just isn't nearly as much wealth as there could be.


But it wasn't enough social responsibility on the part of government and so it didn't prevent all the poverty. In fact, statistically it explains why your country has higher levels of poverty than those 'happy' countries.

You see, that's reflected in the fact that the 1% own close to half the wealth in your country.

We can dance around in circles as long as you like sweet ass. The end result is always going to be the same!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Number_in...

  
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Billie
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #13 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 2:11pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
In truth, you are benefitting from the distribution of wealth from more wealthy people.
No, "leveling" schemes always reduce the size of the pie. Taken far enough, they cause famine.

Medieval style mercantile crony capitalism always enriches the government and their cronies.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #14 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:19pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:23am:
Also, a high IQ says nothing about whether you are wrong or right on any particular issue. 


I've actually said so in the past. If it was an argument it'd be a poor one.

My argument is look at Africa. The more anyone feeds them, the more babies they make, and the more poverty is created. More food just means more people. And I'm not saying government is making anything better.

And yes, every animal does this when they suddenly get more food: They overbreed to subsume that increased food supply and exist at equilibrium once again. Having just one or two babies at a time doesn't matter.

In the fantastical snowly land of Salaka, there are great plagues of eagles that fill the skies, bringing ill will to all.

Don_G wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 11:55am:
That's why I keep telling you people that socially responsible government would cure US poverty.


Nothing will cure poverty. Every system has some poverty. This has always been true and it always will.

People who outbreed their resources are the cause, and they are always rewarded with reproductive success over those who choose not to breed, or even to breed less.

This is why you will always see this problem, even if policy can ameliorate it. Population control is the only way, and no Western government will do this.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Billie
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #15 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 4:08pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
They overbreed to subsume that increased food supply and exist at equilibrium once again. Having just one or two babies at a time doesn't matter.

People who outbreed their resources are the cause...
You're back to completely irrational nonsense... Take some time off. Think about buying your Mom a pistol and lessons.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #16 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 6:07pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:34am:
That would explain why there is not a huge over-abundance of food.  But in more advanced countries such as the U.S. where birth control is easily available, there actually is a huge over-abundance of food.  Look at the dumpsters outside of any restaurant or bakery and you will see it.

Breeding doesn't explain famine, because short-term famine takes place among people who were bred during non-famine times and long-term famine would slow the birth rate as people became too week to breed.



The poverty in Africa is caused by centuries of bad government, first by those who colonized it and later by native African dictatorships.  You are certainly correct that food relief efforts don't solve the problem.  But that is because lack of food is not the problem.  Africa has vast areas of fertile farmland which is why it was colonized in the first place.  Many of its government are too busy in endless conflict or too interested in staying in power to allow the free market to work to provide the abundance we have in North America.

You have it right that charity does not cure poverty.  Only a free market combined with a work ethic does that.  But famine is different from poverty.  We have "poverty" in the U.S. but certainly "poor" people with plasma screens, iphones and Uber accounts are not starving.  The famines in North Korea, Somolia, Ethiopia and Yemen were all caused by governments who prefer conflict over prosperity.  The famines in the Soviet Union and Germany in the first half of the last century were deliberately engineered by governments. 



How do the commies engineer a famine. They can't pray to the god to stop the rain because they know he's only another sky fairy.
  
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #17 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 7:58pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 6:07pm:
How do the commies engineer a famine.
It's almost automatic when they fully implement their socially responsible polices.
  
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #18 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 9:34pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 6:07pm:
How do the commies engineer a famine. They can't pray to the god to stop the rain because they know he's only another sky fairy.


I find it hard to believe someone who loves the Soviet Union as much as you doesn't know about the famines it engineered.  Google "soviet famine" and you will learn more.

You may not be aware that Ethiopia's famine was caused because the dictator of that socialist state thought it was socially responsible to say, "I won't feed the people who are killing my soldiers," so he cut off food to a large part of his own country that he believed gave shelter to rebels. 

But maybe you do know of several examples of famines which were not caused by government bungling or government malevolence.  If so, please list them as I am always willing to learn.


  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #19 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 1:13pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
I find it hard to believe someone who loves the Soviet Union as much as you doesn't know about the famines it engineered.  Google "soviet famine" and you will learn more.


I socially responsible capitalism the same as communism in your mind? Maybe I haven't explained it well enough? Is socially responsible capitalism in the Scandinavian countries resulting in famine or poverty on the same scale as in the US? Is the US now the equivalent to a fascist state?

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You may not be aware that Ethiopia's famine was caused because the dictator of that socialist state thought it was socially responsible to say, "I won't feed the people who are killing my soldiers," so he cut off food to a large part of his own country that he believed gave shelter to rebels. 


Do you see a dictatorship as being socially responsible capitalism. Perhaps I've not explained it to you in simple enough words for you to understand. Ask questions whenever you are confused. Let's talk more about countries in which the people are the happiest. We can even talk about the country in which the people bitch and complain more than other modern first world countries! 

Quote:
But maybe you do know of several examples of famines which were not caused by government bungling or government malevolence.  If so, please list them as I am always willing to learn.


All famines would include other factors other than government failure.

Google 'rice famine' or 'wheat famine' and let me know what you have learned. If you can be polite we might be able to have a thorough discussion on the issues.

But before you do, keep in mind that I"m interested in socially responsible countries as compared to your country the US.



  
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