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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet? (Read 572 times)
burnsred
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Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:36pm
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Food is easily grown in almost all regions of the Earth.

During the industrial age, mechanical technology freed human low-skilled laborers to seek work in factories making not only food but consumer products abundant and cheap.  With modern advances in genetics combined with advances in chemical fertilization and pest control, the output of machine based farms is even greater.  Yet there is famine in places on Earth.  Why?

The short answer is government.  Every famine in the last century was a result of either government mismanagement of a command economy, deliberate government starvation of people considered enemies of one government or another or a combination of those two factors. 

There is no starvation caused by people "living in the wrong place" because why would people live where they would starve?  Crop failures don't cause starvation because they are always localized and could be compensated by the free market rushing in to supply a new market for imported food products.

If people remain in locations in which there is a food shortage, it is because government either forces them to stay either through walls and armed guards or government takes away their means to leave.  The second is much more rare because people will walk rather than starve anytime they have that choice.  If no food is brought to famine areas by profit seekers or private charities, it is because government forces them to stay out.

If there is hunger or even if there is "food insecurity" anywhere in the world that is not caused by government, please provide examples. 

  
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Don_G
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #1 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 11:27pm
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burnsred wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:36pm:
Food is easily grown in almost all regions of the Earth.

During the industrial age, mechanical technology freed human low-skilled laborers to seek work in factories making not only food but consumer products abundant and cheap.  With modern advances in genetics combined with advances in chemical fertilization and pest control, the output of machine based farms is even greater.  Yet there is famine in places on Earth.  Why?

The short answer is government.  Every famine in the last century was a result of either government mismanagement of a command economy, deliberate government starvation of people considered enemies of one government or another or a combination of those two factors. 

There is no starvation caused by people "living in the wrong place" because why would people live where they would starve?  Crop failures don't cause starvation because they are always localized and could be compensated by the free market rushing in to supply a new market for imported food products.

If people remain in locations in which there is a food shortage, it is because government either forces them to stay either through walls and armed guards or government takes away their means to leave.  The second is much more rare because people will walk rather than starve anytime they have that choice.  If no food is brought to famine areas by profit seekers or private charities, it is because government forces them to stay out.

If there is hunger or even if there is "food insecurity" anywhere in the world that is not caused by government, please provide examples. 



How silly. You really do believe the shit you come up with don't you.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #2 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 11:47pm
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burnsred wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:36pm:
Yet there is famine in places on Earth.  Why?


Because people will just breed to uptake the excess from all those great advancements. It's true of every species on Earth.

Government's not making things better but this is not the fundamental problem. Look at what happens the more you feed Africa. The more you feed Africa, the more poverty you create.
  

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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #3 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 11:58pm
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It's true of every species on Earth.


I have to doubt that the average person with a 100 IQ would make that mistake. And it would take somebody with a room temperature IQ to be too stupid to correct it.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:00am
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Don_G wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 11:58pm:
I have to doubt that the average person with a 100 IQ would make that mistake. And it would take somebody with a room temperature IQ to be too stupid to correct it.


This is literally the only defence you have against me. The old you're-not-as-smart-as-you-say.

It's a pity because I agree with you sometimes.

Though it's taken you this long to realise that I don't agree or disagree with people as a favour. So I'll agree with you exactly as much if you pull this shit as if you stroke my ego.

Logically I'm the perfect punching bag.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Don_G
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:29am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:00am:
This is literally the only defence you have against me. The old you're-not-as-smart-as-you-say.

It's a pity because I agree with you sometimes.

Though it's taken you this long to realise that I don't agree or disagree with people as a favour. So I'll agree with you exactly as much if you pull this shit as if you stroke my ego.

Logically I'm the perfect punching bag.


Just start by admitting you were wrong.

I doubt I can ever start including you in conversations, even if you did get rid of all the phony names you post under. You can't stay away from the childish shit you post tha has to be to either fill space or get attention.

That's just the way it's going to have to be Oppo. Only you could work hard to change things for yourself on this forum. And I'm not the only one who considers you an asshole.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #6 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:46am
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Don_G wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:29am:
Just start by admitting you were wrong.


Like it or not my IQ is as high as I say it is. Sorry.

And the absolute truth is that I've only ever had one other name on this forum. Ask the moderator if you don't believe me. I give him permission to tell you who it is.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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ahhell
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #7 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:23am
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Famine is caused by government as noted in the OP.  Either through deliberate action as is often the case in africa or through stupid economic policy such as price controls.   

Mere hunger is usually a distribution problem.  As distribution has become more efficient, hunger has occurred less to the point where in most developed and even developing countries the problem is now not so much hunger as insecurity.

Africa is significantly less poor than it used and wealth generally produces less populations growth so Oppo is wrong and basing his ideas on the 19th century. 

Also, a high IQ says nothing about whether you are wrong or right on any particular issue.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #8 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 8:34am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 11:47pm:
Because people will just breed to uptake the excess from all those great advancements. It's true of every species on Earth. 

That would explain why there is not a huge over-abundance of food.  But in more advanced countries such as the U.S. where birth control is easily available, there actually is a huge over-abundance of food.  Look at the dumpsters outside of any restaurant or bakery and you will see it.

Breeding doesn't explain famine, because short-term famine takes place among people who were bred during non-famine times and long-term famine would slow the birth rate as people became too week to breed.


Quote:
Government's not making things better but this is not the fundamental problem. Look at what happens the more you feed Africa. The more you feed Africa, the more poverty you create.


The poverty in Africa is caused by centuries of bad government, first by those who colonized it and later by native African dictatorships.  You are certainly correct that food relief efforts don't solve the problem.  But that is because lack of food is not the problem.  Africa has vast areas of fertile farmland which is why it was colonized in the first place.  Many of its government are too busy in endless conflict or too interested in staying in power to allow the free market to work to provide the abundance we have in North America.

You have it right that charity does not cure poverty.  Only a free market combined with a work ethic does that.  But famine is different from poverty.  We have "poverty" in the U.S. but certainly "poor" people with plasma screens, iphones and Uber accounts are not starving.  The famines in North Korea, Somolia, Ethiopia and Yemen were all caused by governments who prefer conflict over prosperity.  The famines in the Soviet Union and Germany in the first half of the last century were deliberately engineered by governments. 

  
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Jeff
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Re: Why is There Hunger on Such a Fertile Planet?
Reply #9 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 9:43am
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burnsred wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:36pm:
If there is hunger or even if there is "food insecurity" anywhere in the world that is not caused by government, please provide examples. 

No example yet... Just a lot of bloviating.
  
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