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Don_G
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #10 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 1:48pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 12:22pm:
Why would they do that?  Why not charge higher price?



I shortchanged you by not answering that question on gasoline, and it's a great question so I should have given it some attention.

Indeed, why is the market manipulated the way it is? This is a conversation in which we need the knowledge of JW because I can't explain it in a few words and neither can you it appears. You may not even accept that the market isn't a free market.

Something that we do know is that the price in Oregon for full serve is no higher than the price for self-serve in other states.

I'm assuming at least and I'm also assuming that state or municipal taxes haven't skewed the comparisons.

So the best I can do is say that the companies that sell gas to the gas stations are equalizing the price at the pump, at least in the vicinity of states affected.

I have an example for JW. In my city which is where the gasoline comes to Vancouver Island, the cost at the pump is higher than the cost 80 kilometers in either direction. There is no municipal taxing involved. I know of no reason why that is but it's completely true. I could probably prove it on the internet.

I sincerely doubt that othe cities are deciding to take less profit on their gas. I have to go with them getting a lower price from the supplier.
  
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Jeff
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #11 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 1:54pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
Something that we do know is that the price in Oregon for full serve is no higher than the price for self-serve in other states.

I'm assuming at least and I'm also assuming that state or municipal taxes haven't skewed the comparisons.


As you can see, Oregon's gas prices are among the highest in the nation-

http://then.gasbuddy.com/GB_Price_List.aspx?cntry=USA

As you can also see, Oregon's gas taxes are lower than those of the surrounding states-

https://taxfoundation.org/state-gasoline-tax-rates-2017/

Why assume when the information is so readily available?
  
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Don_G
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #12 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 1:58pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 1:54pm:
As you can see, Oregon's gas prices are among the highest in the nation-

http://then.gasbuddy.com/GB_Price_List.aspx?cntry=USA

As you can also see, Oregon's gas taxes are lower than those of the surrounding states-

https://taxfoundation.org/state-gasoline-tax-rates-2017/

Why assume when the information is so readily available?


I can't take your word for it Jeff because you purposely lie too often. But I will thank you for your contribution.

I hope this gets the attention of JW, who will definitely be interested in your supposed evidence.

And I do hope you aren't lying again? This could be the answer JW was looking for.
  
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Don_G
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #13 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 2:04pm
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I should also say that Jeff's information should be received with caution. He says that Oregon's gas prices are some of the highest in the nation, but he doesn't say anything about surrounding states such as Washington and Idaho. Then there's always the possibility of Oregon receiving gas cheaper so it can tax higher? The free market is always full of questions that honest people need to consider.

If Jeff was an honest person he would be more objective on the issue and would be believed by others more readily.
  
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ahhell
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #14 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 2:22pm
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http://www.gasbuddy.com/USA

http://gasprices.aaa.com/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankbi/2014/12/16/the-lowest-gas-prices-in-every-s...

Prices are slightly lower than surrounding states.  Keep mind prices can vary significantly within states.   The west generally has the highest prices.

Side note, Don, you seem to underrate the flexibility that local managers have with setting prices.  When I was cashier at a gas station the manager would start each morning by cruising around the competition to see what their prices were then set is accordingly.  I imagine the corporate bosses had some minimum price or something but the local guy set the actual price. 

edit to add the difference in price is mostly explained by Oregon's lower gas tax

https://taxfoundation.org/state-gasoline-tax-rates-2016/

Between WA and OR, there's about a 13 cent difference in the pump price and about a 13 cent difference in the tax.

I strongly suspect the reason costs are higher in OR is that their major metro area is so close to the WA border that they have no choice but to compete.
  
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Don_G
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #15 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 2:35pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 2:22pm:
http://www.gasbuddy.com/USA

http://gasprices.aaa.com/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankbi/2014/12/16/the-lowest-gas-prices-in-every-s...

Prices are slightly lower than surrounding states.  Keep mind prices can vary significantly within states.   The west generally has the highest prices.

Side note, Don, you seem to underrate the flexibility that local managers have with setting prices.  When I was cashier at a gas station the manager would start each morning by cruising around the competition to see what their prices were then set is accordingly.  I imagine the corporate bosses had some minimum price or something but the local guy set the actual price. 

edit to add the difference in price is mostly explained by Oregon's lower gas tax

https://taxfoundation.org/state-gasoline-tax-rates-2016/

Between WA and OR, there's about a 13 cent difference in the pump price and about a 13 cent difference in the tax.

I strongly suspect the reason costs are higher in OR is that their major metro area is so close to the WA border that they have no choice but to compete.


Thanks ahhell, and well researched! Also good to have somebody who worked in a station and could have got the inside skinny on prices. Although I'm suspecting not completely.

I'm still hoping JW will come back and add to the conversation. There's a lot of water under the bridge now.

And wouldn't it be nice if Jeff could get into an impartial mood and just add to the issue, rather than screw it up with his usual bias.
  
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ahhell
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #16 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 2:38pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Although I'm suspecting not completely.

Almost certainly not, still, it surprised me that he had any say in the matter.
  
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #17 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 4:35pm
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Only Kalifornia, Washington, Alaska and Hawaii have higher gas prices than Oregon, and Oregon's gas taxes are mid-range.

It''s easy to see that that the Oregon law is creating jobs. How much do they pay and who does them? Pumping gas at local stations used to be a popular High School job... Is that who does it in Oregon?
  
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ahhell
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #18 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 4:35pm:
Only Kalifornia, Washington, Alaska and Hawaii have higher gas prices than Oregon, and Oregon's gas taxes are mid-range.

It''s easy to see that that the Oregon law is creating jobs. How much do they pay and who does them? Pumping gas at local stations used to be a popular High School job... Is that who does it in Oregon?
Nope, in my experience its adults, often immigrants.   Actually its basically the same crowd that works as security guards; retirees, students, and the otherwise unemployable.
  
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Jeff
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Re: New Jersey Bans Self-Service Gas Pumps?
Reply #19 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 4:54pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 4:48pm:
Nope, in my experience its adults, often immigrants.   Actually its basically the same crowd that works as security guards; retirees, students, and the otherwise unemployable.
So it's an entry level job that used to always be done by High School kids in their time off so they could earn money and get job experience, but now, High School kids aren't doing it.

I have ideas that would plausibly explain that, maybe.

What do you think is going on? A High School kid with no experience isn't worth $12.00/ hour, but almost any adult is?
  
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