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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Global Warming (Read 1628 times)
Billie
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #20 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 2:09pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 6:32pm:
OK, you posit that non-standard pollution will kill us all. Fine.

Before I can answer, you have to be more specific about what sort of pollution you are convinced will kill us all.

Thanks.
What about it lizard, will you tell me about this non-standard pollution that's going to kill us all?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #21 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 2:44pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 2:09pm:
What about it lizard, will you tell me about this non-standard pollution that's going to kill us all?


What's standard?

Science has told us that air pollution will kill us due to it's effect on the earth's climate. I'm a firm believer in that being the eventual consequence of ignoring science.

On a lighter note, it's being suggested that it may be too late now.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #22 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:06pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 6:32pm:
OK, you posit that non-standard pollution will kill us all. Fine.

Before I can answer, you have to be more specific about what sort of pollution you are convinced will kill us all.

Thanks.


If libertarians can't answer the hypothetical, there's cause to believe that this is where the denial comes from, rather than from the evidence.

I was looking for a libertarian solution to global warming if catastrophic manmade global warming did exist. I'm not talking about one man releasing smog that chokes another. I'm talking about (again, hypothetically, because I admit the evidence for catastrophic manmade global warming is shaky) releasing initially harmless CO2 that reaches a tipping point.

All I got was: Evade, evade, evade.

I shouldn't have to explain how global warming is hypothetically different from factory smog. But now I have, and I'll just get more evasion of the issue.

Probably because libertarians don't have a solution. Hypothetically, once the tipping point is reached and the damage caused, the people who caused most of it may be dead, and the remaining polluters won't have the funds to cover being sued. Tort system is a non-solution in this case.

Again, this leads me to believe the libertarian unanimous denial of global warming would exist regardless of the facts.
  

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ahhell
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #23 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:53pm
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I believe manmade global warming is a thing, its mostly caused by CO2 emmissions.  I believe this because its plausible, it is the consensus of experts that study climate, and evidence has been presented that seems compelling to me.

It saddens me that Oppo and Don are correct on this.  Other libertarians refuse to admit this because there really doesn't seem to be a free market solution and it crashes against their ideology as a result.

There's really no point in talking about AGW on this forum as a result.  As oppo notes, you can't even get the hypothetical answered.
  
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Billie
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #24 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:15pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:53pm:
I believe manmade global warming is a thing, its mostly caused by CO2 emmissions.  I believe this because its plausible, it is the consensus of experts that study climate...
If there was large agreement and good evidence, it would be more than "plausible" it would be accepted theory, but there is neither enough good evidence, enough scientists who agree nor good explanations for what happened in the past.

And the climate models are voodoo magic shows.

Has anyone seen a meme of Algore casting spells over an animal skin globe of the earth?
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #25 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:26pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
If libertarians can't answer the hypothetical, there's cause to believe that this is where the denial comes from, rather than from the evidence.

I was looking for a libertarian solution to global warming if catastrophic manmade global warming did exist. I'm not talking about one man releasing smog that chokes another. I'm talking about (again, hypothetically, because I admit the evidence for catastrophic manmade global warming is shaky) releasing initially harmless CO2 that reaches a tipping point.

All I got was: Evade, evade, evade.

I shouldn't have to explain how global warming is hypothetically different from factory smog. But now I have, and I'll just get more evasion of the issue.

Probably because libertarians don't have a solution. Hypothetically, once the tipping point is reached and the damage caused, the people who caused most of it may be dead, and the remaining polluters won't have the funds to cover being sued. Tort system is a non-solution in this case.

Again, this leads me to believe the libertarian unanimous denial of global warming would exist regardless of the facts.


I haven't been commenting or paying close attention to your and Jeff's argument.  But since you've generalized it, I'll take a swing at your hypothetical which is:
Quote:
On a more serious note, why not assume global warming as the moonbats see it is real and catastrophic, just for a thought experiment? Assume it really will kill us all. What's the libertarian solution?


If you mean that it really will kill us all no matter what we do because it is too far gone, then the libertarian solution would be to allow the free market to provide us what we need as during the last days of the sustainability of life on Earth.  At some point when people, animals and crops begin dying off, the system will experience multiple failures due to shortages and a lack of motivation to plan for the future.  But the free market would be the least bad of options in a horrible situation.  I'd hate to think that distribution of dwindling resources would be left to the men with guns. 

If you mean that it really will kill us all unless we take action, then the free market again is the solution.  Just as McDonald's rakes in, and matches, huge amounts of voluntary contributions to its charitable foundation through coin drop boxes, so could the battle against global warming be funded by voluntary contributions.

Again, leaving it to armed robbers to act in our best interest isn't a smart solution.



  

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Billie
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #26 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:50pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
If libertarians can't answer the hypothetical...
Piss off jerk.
  
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Billie
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #27 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:56pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:26pm:
If you mean that it really will kill us all no matter what we do because it is too far gone, then the libertarian solution would be to allow the free market to provide us what we need as during the last days of the sustainability of life on Earth.  At some point when people, animals and crops begin dying off...
That is not a foregone conclusion. I won't allow you to argue from it as a fact.

If humans have a chance to survive anywhere any time, it is because they are free to innovate and trade and adapt (and trade has always dragged along ideas and been/become a trade of ideas).

Freedom and property rights and the prosperity they bring are our best hope for prolonging human life on earth.

Lots of starving peasants have never been helpful.


  
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Billie
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #28 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:01pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
I'm not talking about one man releasing smog that chokes another.
That's exactly what I am talking about. You are liable under the common law when something drifting over from your property chokes me. Betcha damn life you would be under the common law.

Of course you are liable and bound by law to stop. Grandma has already died, and Grandpa's getting sicker...
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #29 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:25pm
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Burnsred wrote:

Quote:
If you mean that it really will kill us all no matter what we do because it is too far gone, then the libertarian solution would be to allow the free market to provide us what we need as during the last days of the sustainability of life on Earth.  At some point when people, animals and crops begin dying off...


Billie wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:56pm:
That is not a foregone conclusion. I won't allow you to argue from it as a fact.
It isn't intended to be fact.  It is an answer to a hypothetical question.

If you don't believe that hypothetical questions further a discussion, that is a fair stance.  We don't live life on a desert island or a lifeboat in which we have to follow the captains orders for our own safety.  Nor is our planet actually in danger from "global warming" or whatever the fraud is called now.

Opposition also has a point.  If one has thought one's positions out with due diligence, one should be able to answer questions about it.  The Don_G types on the board fail to impress for that very reason.  So I answered Oppo's hypothetical.  Sue me. 

Quote:
If humans have a chance to survive anywhere any time, it is because they are free to innovate and trade and adapt (and trade has always dragged along ideas and been/become a trade of ideas).

Freedom and property rights and the prosperity they bring are our best hope for prolonging human life on earth.


Then support property rights and stop advocating that our property be taken at gunpoint for use by the government.


Quote:
Lots of starving peasants have never been helpful.




Correct, they never help me at all.  No idea what that means in this context, though.


  

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