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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Global Warming (Read 1512 times)
Billie
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #30 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:43pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:25pm:
It isn't intended to be fact.  It is an answer to a hypothetical question.


It is not an answer, it's an assertion, and I won't let it stand without argument.

I see a potential for people of zeal with no understanding to construe from your assertion that freedom will doom the world because greed.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #31 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:28pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:43pm:
It is not an answer, it's an assertion, and I won't let it stand without argument.

I see a potential for people of zeal with no understanding to construe from your assertion that freedom will doom the world because greed.


They would have to be mighty dumb to do that.  Or pretend to be.

It sounds as if you are angry that you couldn't think of a libertarian answer to Oppo's question and I could.  The way to do it is easy:  Think like a libertarian and not a constitutional conservative.

You didn't want to answer the hypothetical because you thought Oppo was trying to trap you into saying that in an extreme case, government intervention is called for.  He was trying to do that and you would have said that if Oppo could somehow force you to answer.  Since he could not, you simply refused to answer.  That was tantamount to an admission that you agree that government is the answer in such an extreme situation.

A more libertarian libertarian knows that government acting outside of its legitimate role of using its monopoly on force to protect the rights if individuals is NEVER the answer.  Asking government to step in because there is a disaster looming is like asking Charlie Manson to step in because there are some teenagers who are unsure of what to do with their lives and in need of mentoring.


  

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Billie
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #32 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:38pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:28pm:
They would have to be mighty dumb to do that.  Or pretend to be.

It sounds as if you are angry that you couldn't think of a libertarian answer to Oppo's question and I could.  The way to do it is easy:  Think like a libertarian and not a constitutional conservative.

This is your assertion-

"At some point when people, animals and crops begin dying off, the system will experience multiple failures due to shortages and a lack of motivation to plan for the future."

It's not supportable. It's an assumption based on Luddite world views.

I understand why you want to change the subject, but it's rude of you.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #33 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:43pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:38pm:
This is your assertion-

"At some point when people, animals and crops begin dying off, the system will experience multiple failures due to shortages and a lack of motivation to plan for the future."

It's not supportable. It's an assumption based on Luddite world views.

I understand why you want to change the subject, but it's rude of you.


Ok, Jeff.  Do you know what a hypothetical question is?


  

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Billie
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #34 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:45pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:43pm:
Ok, Jeff.  Do you know what a hypothetical question is?


I know an unsupportable assertion when I hear one.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #35 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:56pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
I know an unsupportable assertion when I hear one.


Jeff, this is just your way of dodging the argument.

Dodge all you please, I'm a libertarian so I would never try to make you do something you don't want to. 

But, really, you're like a guy who goes to a paintball field and stays in the snack bar.


  

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SnarkySack
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #36 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:57pm
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Billie wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:38pm:
This is your assertion-

"At some point when people, animals and crops begin dying off, the system will experience multiple failures due to shortages and a lack of motivation to plan for the future."




That's not my assertion.  That is the hypothetical situation presented by Oppo.

I could answer, you could not.  Get over it.


  

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Re: Global Warming
Reply #37 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:43pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:53pm:
I believe manmade global warming is a thing, its mostly caused by CO2 emmissions.  I believe this because its plausible, it is the consensus of experts that study climate, and evidence has been presented that seems compelling to me.

It saddens me that Oppo and Don are correct on this.  Other libertarians refuse to admit this because there really doesn't seem to be a free market solution and it crashes against their ideology as a result.

There's really no point in talking about AGW on this forum as a result.  As oppo notes, you can't even get the hypothetical answered.


I'm obviously pleased to hear you take that position. And I'm sorry that it saddens you to do that but I have no idea why that would be.

I rather expected that you couldn't be a denier because of your background and your ability to rise above politics.

Anyway, kill, kiss!
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Global Warming
Reply #38 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:10pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:53pm:
I believe manmade global warming is a thing, its mostly caused by CO2 emmissions.  I believe this because its plausible, it is the consensus of experts that study climate, and evidence has been presented that seems compelling to me.

It saddens me that Oppo and Don are correct on this.  Other libertarians refuse to admit this because there really doesn't seem to be a free market solution and it crashes against their ideology as a result.

There's really no point in talking about AGW on this forum as a result.  As oppo notes, you can't even get the hypothetical answered.


Well, I actually answered it, but don't mind me.

In fact, if there really were some problem that libertarianism and the free market cannot solve, that is exactly what we should address on this forum. 

I see global warming as a complete hoax.  But I don't mind answering questions about a hypothetical situation in which some type of global disaster could be threatened by industry or some other human activity that should not be regulated under libertarianism.

Heck, someday, there might be a real situation like that so libertarians should prepare for it.


  

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Re: Global Warming
Reply #39 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 11:24pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:28pm:
A more libertarian libertarian knows that government acting outside of its legitimate role of using its monopoly on force to protect the rights if individuals is NEVER the answer.  Asking government to step in because there is a disaster looming is like asking Charlie Manson to step in because there are some teenagers who are unsure of what to do with their lives and in need of mentoring.


A legit answer, just let it happen. But yes, it's a choice between this and sometimes government is necessary.

Jeff doesn't want to choose because he's a &^%&ing perfection incarnate paladin. He'll never admit anything is wrong with anything except evil. He'll never admit that sometimes there's not an answer, and sometimes people are going to get screwed. It's not like this doesn't happen with other philosophies, but no, you see, libertarianism is PERFECT.

I sometimes feel like some people are overcompensating for the fact that their philosophy doesn't work. I actually think libertarianism probably works at least as well as competing philosophies, but talking to some (not you Burnsy) it seems like the adherents of libertarianism don't actually think that. They think they're deceiving everyone else because the philosophy brings THEM advantage and hurts everyone else.

ahhell wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:53pm:
It saddens me that Oppo and Don are correct on this.  Other libertarians refuse to admit this because there really doesn't seem to be a free market solution and it crashes against their ideology as a result.

There's really no point in talking about AGW on this forum as a result.  As oppo notes, you can't even get the hypothetical answered.


What there's not terribly much evidence for is manmade, catastrophic global warming.

There is evidence for about half a degree of manmade global warming over the last few decades. My opinion is that if this does anything, it will bring plagues of insects. Some insects in some places only need half a degree more to burst out of their life cycle and breed year round. As devastating as this might be locally, even this is not "catastrophic" on the level most environmentalists fear. But you don't hear about the bugs because it's not political. You can't charge people or tax people because bugs.

Neither side has an answer for this. The leftists won't solve it because they have no more interest in solving it then they do legalising drugs. They need to preserve the problem so they can win votes. If they actually solve problems, their voter base disappears.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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