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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism? (Read 460 times)
Don_G
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #30 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:30pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 10:13am:
The real problem is government thinking it has been authorized to redistribute wealth.

People are corrupted by power, and even if we could somehow fill Congress with libertarians, they are still people, and the temptation for them to play the-power-equals-personal wealth game is still there, as long as there is a supposed power to reward some people by stealing from others.


Wouldn't you resist corruption? If so then don't sell your fellow libertarians short.

I don't see that as the major hurdle. It would be more worrisome that society would collapse completely when free stuff is taken away from 90% or more of the people.

Or perhaps you're envisioning a system in which 'stuff' would be allotted to the 90% by the community on a statewide scale.

Maybe Trump could make this happen if he is aided in consolidating power in an acceptable way. Gerrymandering can usually pass muster!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #31 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 1:25pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:30pm:
... society would collapse completely when free stuff is taken away from 90% or more of the people.

I'm glad you wrote this.  Smiley

I'm going to add it to my Dumbest Things Ever Written list.  In fact, I'll place it at the top!  Smiley

edit:  The #1 item was Nancy Pelosi's "We have to pass the [ACA] bill so that you can find out what is in it." But yours is even dumber!  Wow!!!   Shocked   Grin   Cheesy
  
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Don_G
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #32 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 1:33pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 1:25pm:
I'm glad you wrote this.  Smiley

I'm going to add it to my Dumbest Things Ever Written list.  In fact, I'll place it at the top!  Smiley


I'm pleased to take the position of honour on your list of bitches and whining.

Get over it, you got caught with your pants down satisfying yourself and you don't want to keep reminding everybody.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #33 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:24pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:30pm:
Wouldn't you resist corruption? If so then don't sell your fellow libertarians short.


I'm not running for office, and I won't serve if elected, but human fallibility is simply a fact, and the type of people who want to be in government seem particularly prone to corruption.
That's probably because they way governments currently operate provides so many opportunities... But even when the U.S. government was very small and mostly limited to it's Constitutionally enumerated powers, corruption existed.

  
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Don_G
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #34 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:36pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:24pm:
I'm not running for office, and I won't serve if elected, but human fallibility is simply a fact, and the type of people who want to be in government seem particularly prone to corruption.
That's probably because they way governments currently operate provides so many opportunities... But even when the U.S. government was very small and mostly limited to it's Constitutionally enumerated powers, corruption existed.



You've changed the subject from the question I asked.

Tell me about those reguations that were totally useless. I think you'r afraid to try, if it's not just not knowing what to say.

In the meantime, it's all bullshit on regulations not being necessary. Libertarian bullshit that apparently you subscribe to.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #35 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:41pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:36pm:
Tell me about those reguations that were totally useless.
Regulations could be useful if they actually worked the way the "regulators" claim they will, but they don't, and it is simply a fact that regulatory agencies are captured by the industries they are supposed to regulate, that regulators serve themselves and that regulatory enforcement is used as a political tool.

The common law is a far better tool and far cheaper.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #36 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:43pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:41pm:
Regulations could be useful if they actually worked the way the "regulators" claim they will, but they don't, and it is simply a fact that regulatory agencies are captured by the industries they are supposed to regulate, that regulators serve themselves and that regulatory enforcement is used as a political tool.

The common law is a far better tool and far cheaper.


You can't even tell me what regulation you're talking about.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #37 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:55pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:43pm:
You can't even tell me what regulation you're talking about.
Pick one. It's sort of like you wanting me to name a county with no homicides when the answer is the great majority of them.

Anyway, pick your favorite regulation and I'll try to tell you how its purpose can be better accomplished by the common law, for lots less expenditure of tax money and virtually no corruption and without the possibility of punishing political enemies.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #38 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:08pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 2:36pm:
You've changed the subject from the question I asked.

Tell me about those reguations that were totally useless. I think you'r afraid to try, if it's not just not knowing what to say.

In the meantime, it's all bullshit on regulations not being necessary. Libertarian bullshit that apparently you subscribe to.



There are probably no regulations that can be said to be inarguably totally useless.  No matter how mean-spirited, silly or destructive any give regulation is, someone somewhere will benefit or believe they will benefit.  For example, suppose there was a regulation that left-handed golfers must be given a five stroke advantage when playing against a right handed player.  Not a golf course regulation, but a federal law mandating it and fining any right-handed golfer who refuses to give that advantage and any left-handed golfer who refuses to accept the advantage ten thousand dollars per nine holes.  Don, you could not argue that this is a useless regulation because southpaw golfers will benefit from it and those who refuse it will contribute to treasury of the federal government to help pay for all the wonderful things it does.  You could argue that it does more harm than good, which is true of almost any federal regulation you could name.


  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #39 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 6:50pm
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burnsred wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:08pm:
There are probably no regulations that can be said to be inarguably totally useless.  No matter how mean-spirited, silly or destructive any give regulation is, someone somewhere will benefit or believe they will benefit.  For example, suppose there was a regulation that left-handed golfers must be given a five stroke advantage when playing against a right handed player.  Not a golf course regulation, but a federal law mandating it and fining any right-handed golfer who refuses to give that advantage and any left-handed golfer who refuses to accept the advantage ten thousand dollars per nine holes.  Don, you could not argue that this is a useless regulation because southpaw golfers will benefit from it and those who refuse it will contribute to treasury of the federal government to help pay for all the wonderful things it does.  You could argue that it does more harm than good, which is true of almost any federal regulation you could name.


Yes, it's the problem of localized benefits and widespread extractions to pay for them. A pernicious guarantee that bad regulations will be created. Bad because they benefit the motivated knowing few and are paid for by the unknowing many.

In doing so, they misallocate resources and are a loss to any economy.
  
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