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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism? (Read 1314 times)
Don_G
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #40 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 6:58pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:08pm:
There are probably no regulations that can be said to be inarguably totally useless. 




Well then that settles it. None of you can name a regulation that is useless.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #41 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:34pm
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Well then that settles it. None of you can name a regulation that is useless.


Not if you mean that no one can even conceivably benefit from it, which seems to be your standard.

Question for you, Don:  Would you support a regulation that simply requires people with more than a specified amount of wealth to surrender any wealth above that specified amount to be given by the government to those with much less wealth? 

Would that be a useless regulation? 

  

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The Opposition
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #42 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 10:02pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 1:25pm:
I'm glad you wrote this.  Smiley

I'm going to add it to my Dumbest Things Ever Written list.  In fact, I'll place it at the top!  Smiley

edit:  The #1 item was Nancy Pelosi's "We have to pass the [ACA] bill so that you can find out what is in it." But yours is even dumber!  Wow!!!   Shocked   Grin   Cheesy


It's not that dumb because so many people have become dependent and subsequently overpopulated. These people use the stolen money to buy products.

What happens when Lays loses 90% of its business?

Arguably society would come out of it better, but the point is there would be a major upheaval.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #43 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 6:44am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 10:02pm:
It's not that dumb because so many people have become dependent and subsequently overpopulated. These people use the stolen money to buy products.

What happens when Lays loses 90% of its business?

Arguably society would come out of it better, but the point is there would be a major upheaval.
Governments that assume the power of re-distributing wealth always eventually cause "major upheavals".

Venezuela is currently undergoing just such a government created upheaval.

Nations all around the world that have infringed property rights and redistributed wealth are massively in debt with no potential of dealing with their debt other than default or 'money' printing.

It will end badly, and you think we should just wait for it.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #44 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:37pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 6:44am:
Nations all around the world that have infringed property rights and redistributed wealth are massively in debt with no potential of dealing with their debt other than default or 'money' printing.

Like the US?   Grin
  
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Don_G
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #45 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:49pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:34pm:
Not if you mean that no one can even conceivably benefit from it, which seems to be your standard.

Question for you, Don:  Would you support a regulation that simply requires people with more than a specified amount of wealth to surrender any wealth above that specified amount to be given by the government to those with much less wealth? 

Would that be a useless regulation? 



What you have written is in fact already a regulation, except you have added a wrong interpretation of what the money must be used for by government. I'll rewrite it to make it completely appropriate and valid.

Would you support a regulation that simply requires people with more than a specified amount of wealth to surrender any wealth above that specified amount to be given to the government?

And the answer is, absolutely yes! That's called taxation. To what use the government puts that money is all that is left to question. Undoubtedly there is a need for social responsibility in government so some of that money must obviously go to people who need assistance.

I'll only add that social responsibility in government is essential to ensure a wise and just use of tax money.

I envision that happening in my country. You envision it not happening and it being theft in yours.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #46 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:41pm
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What you have written is in fact already a regulation, except you have added a wrong interpretation of what the money must be used for by government. I'll rewrite it to make it completely appropriate and valid.

Would you support a regulation that simply requires people with more than a specified amount of wealth to surrender any wealth above that specified amount to be given to the government?

And the answer is, absolutely yes! That's called taxation. To what use the government puts that money is all that is left to question. Undoubtedly there is a need for social responsibility in government so some of that money must obviously go to people who need assistance.

I'll only add that social responsibility in government is essential to ensure a wise and just use of tax money.

I envision that happening in my country. You envision it not happening and it being theft in yours.
Laws passed by Congress are not regulations, they are laws. The power to tax is a power granted to Congress, with limitations which are currently being ignored.

Congress is not free to tax for any purpose it may imagine, but only to accomplish the duties it has been given by the Constitution.

The founders were aware of the "leveling impulse" and sought to prevent our government from having such power.

Certainly you at least object to corporate welfare? Or do you think that is "wise and just"?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #47 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 2:55pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:41pm:
Laws passed by Congress are not regulations, they are laws. The power to tax is a power granted to Congress, with limitations which are currently being ignored.


You're partially right but in any case I used it just for the sake of argument. And I'm sure I could quote regulations that became laws. So no big deal.

Quote:
Congress is not free to tax for any purpose it may imagine, but only to accomplish the duties it has been given by the Constitution.


If you're quoting something material then you could be right. In actual practice you know you're wrong.

Quote:
The founders were aware of the "leveling impulse" and sought to prevent our government from having such power.


And you're all telling me that it didn't work.

Quote:
Certainly you at least object to corporate welfare? Or do you think that is "wise and just"?


Corporate welfare in your country, in all it's many manifestations is my biggest criticism of your country.

I've written about what Trump has done for burnsred but it's something for you to consider.

The right will take away the people's entitlements and save money on taxes. Then the left will come to power again and restore entitlements and need to raise taxes. Then the right will come to powr again and .......................... etc.

And so it goes. Agree so far?

The problem with Trump's tax bill is that it has taken it to such an egregious excess that it's going to be very damaging to your country in the longer run.

In fact, Trump has done the very opposite of what he said he would do for the middle class and underprivileged.

The question that I'm interested in is, how long before all those people come to realize they have been snookered?

This is a bit deal jeff but I think that Mueller will take Trump down first, befor the people go for their guns.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #48 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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You're partially right...
My statement was wholly correct.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #49 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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And I'm sure I could quote regulations that became laws. So no big deal.


Our Courts have nodded in favor of government power and said that regulations have the force of law, even though they aren't laws and we didn't elect the people who made them and can't fire them.

It's one sort of Sovereign Power our court's have been granting since the beginning of the "progressive" era.

It's a very big deal. It leads to having a Sovereign. Hillary had fantasies about her being Queen Hillary (and Queen Teeny being demoted to Palace Catamite fluffer) but alas, people like Bernie and Uncle Joe Biden better than they ever liked Hillary.
  
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