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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism? (Read 594 times)
Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #50 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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Let's talk more about it, as adults.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #51 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:23pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:41pm:
Laws passed by Congress are not regulations, they are laws. The power to tax is a power granted to Congress, with limitations which are currently being ignored.
Regulation is a more broad term than you imply by this statement.  Laws absolutely can be regulation.  The Dodd Frank act was banking regulation passed as a law by congress for instance.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #52 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:32pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:23pm:
Regulation is a more broad term than you imply by this statement.  Laws absolutely can be regulation.
They are two different things.

Congress has a tyrannical habit of passing laws that give "regulators" the "authority" to decide what the policies will be and how they will be enforced. Congress' "Laws" even give bureaucrats enforcement power and police power, so we have Dept. of Agriculture SWAT teams playing soldier.

Bad ideas, every one. And outside the law.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #53 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:36pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 5:23pm:
The Dodd Frank act was banking regulation passed as a law by congress for instance.
Congress told all the various regulators to come up with plans to make things better, and not to worry if they made things worse, they would get more money next year as long as they spent every penny they got this year.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #54 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 6:20pm
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Would this be topical?

Federalist No. 85: Hamilton
           "According to the formal division of the subject of these papers announced in my first number, there would appear still to remain for discussion two points: "the analogy of the proposed government to your own State constitution," and "the additional security which its adoption will afford to republican government, to liberty, and to property."


           "The additional securities to republican government, and to property, to be derived from the adoption of the plan under consideration, consist chiefly in the restraints which the preservation of the Union will impose on local factions and insurrections, and on the ambition of powerful individuals in single States who might acquire credit and influence enough from leaders and favorites to become the despots of the people; and in the diminuation of the opportunites of foreign intrigue, which the dissolution of the Confederacy would invite and facilitate; in the prevention of extensive military establishments, which could not fail to grow out of wars between the States in a disunited situation; in the express guaranty of a republican form of government to each; in the absolute and universal exclusion of titles of nobility; and in the precautions against the repetition of those practices on the part of the State governments which have undermined the foundations of property and credit..."

Isn't that a great idea?  I don't think anything could be more "socially responsible" than that!
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #55 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:23pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:49pm:
What you have written is in fact already a regulation, except you have added a wrong interpretation of what the money must be used for by government. I'll rewrite it to make it completely appropriate and valid.

Would you support a regulation that simply requires people with more than a specified amount of wealth to surrender any wealth above that specified amount to be given to the government?

And the answer is, absolutely yes! That's called taxation. To what use the government puts that money is all that is left to question. Undoubtedly there is a need for social responsibility in government so some of that money must obviously go to people who need assistance.

I'll only add that social responsibility in government is essential to ensure a wise and just use of tax money.

I envision that happening in my country. You envision it not happening and it being theft in yours.



That is not happening in your country, the United States.  There are thousands of taxes for hard-working Americans to wade through and deal with.  But there is no tax on wealth itself and no limit to the amount of wealth any given person may have.

I'm asking if you would support such a regulation, but you appear to be even less willing than Jeff to answer hypothetical questions.  You are two sides of the same tarnished statist coin.
  

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Don_G
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #56 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:47pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:23pm:
That is not happening in your country, the United States.  There are thousands of taxes for hard-working Americans to wade through and deal with.  But there is no tax on wealth itself and no limit to the amount of wealth any given person may have.

I'm asking if you would support such a regulation, but you appear to be even less willing than Jeff to answer hypothetical questions.  You are two sides of the same tarnished statist coin.


I'm pleased to hear you place both jeff and I as your opponents. I see a time in the future when Jeff and I will agree on a lot of things! You're helping to make that possible and I'll be diligent to make sure I agree with Jeff on every possible opportunity.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #57 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:00pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:47pm:
I'm pleased to hear you place both jeff and I as your opponents. I see a time in the future when Jeff and I will agree on a lot of things! You're helping to make that possible and I'll be diligent to make sure I agree with Jeff on every possible opportunity.


The feeling is obviously mutual.  Jeff seems to be striving to be just as statist and just as evasive about it as you.


  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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The Opposition
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #58 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 3:58am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 6:44am:
Governments that assume the power of re-distributing wealth always eventually cause "major upheavals".

Venezuela is currently undergoing just such a government created upheaval.

Nations all around the world that have infringed property rights and redistributed wealth are massively in debt with no potential of dealing with their debt other than default or 'money' printing.

It will end badly, and you think we should just wait for it.


When did I say that? I can't make one post without you telling me what I think.

I just told you what was going to happen.

Redistributed money contributes a lot to the economy. I'm not saying it's good, or that I like things this way, I am saying there will be a major upheaval when Lays loses 90% of its business. It's not just the poor. It's going to - at least initially - take a big chunk out of the economy too.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #59 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 8:25am
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Don_G wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:47pm:
I'm pleased to hear you place both jeff and I as your opponents. I see a time in the future when Jeff and I will agree on a lot of things!
Don't hold your breath.
  
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