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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism? (Read 1154 times)
Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #60 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 8:28am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 3:58am:
Redistributed money contributes a lot to the economy.
No. It's a loss. The cost of collecting and distributing the wealth is a dead loss. There are further losses because resources are misallocated when people who earned the wealth don't get to decide what to do with it.

Edit: Even more is lost because of the disincentive to produce wealth created by taking what you produce.

If your claim was valid, the Soviet Union would have had a booming healthy economy...
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #61 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 9:59am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 3:58am:
When did I say that? I can't make one post without you telling me what I think.

I just told you what was going to happen.

Redistributed money contributes a lot to the economy. I'm not saying it's good, or that I like things this way, I am saying there will be a major upheaval when Lays loses 90% of its business. It's not just the poor. It's going to - at least initially - take a big chunk out of the economy too.


Redistributing money is what keeps the economy going .  But the best way for money to be redistributed is through the free market.  The worst way is by the government.  In the middle of the two is redistribution via a heavily regulated semi-free market.  Because our markets are more free than other semi-free markets, we are the most successful country in the world, economically.  But look how much more we are succeeding in the last year just because we have a president who talks about reducing regulations.
 

  

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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #62 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:27am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 9:59am:
Redistributing money is what keeps the economy going .  But the best way for money to be redistributed is through the free market.  The worst way is by the government.  In the middle of the two is redistribution via a heavily regulated semi-free market.  Because our markets are more free than other semi-free markets, we are the most successful country in the world, economically.  But look how much more we are succeeding in the last year just because we have a president who talks about reducing regulations.
 

Good post.
Trump has actually eliminated some regulations.
  
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Sicklers Dink
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #63 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:55am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:27am:
Good post.
Trump has actually eliminated some regulations.


Good luck with Trump when the people who supported him come to understand he's only interested in helping the very wealthy sweet ass.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #64 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 5:44pm
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Sicklers Dink wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:55am:
Good luck with Trump when the people who supported him come to understand he's only interested in helping the very wealthy sweet ass.
97% of official USA journalists are investigating Trump like crazy, and so is the "Special Prosecutor"... The first time I heard that phrase, I thought, Witchfinder General. The guy that was sent for during the Inquisition.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #65 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 12:40am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 8:28am:
No. It's a loss. The cost of collecting and distributing the wealth is a dead loss. There are further losses because resources are misallocated when people who earned the wealth don't get to decide what to do with it.

Edit: Even more is lost because of the disincentive to produce wealth created by taking what you produce.

If your claim was valid, the Soviet Union would have had a booming healthy economy...


I didn't say it wasn't a loss. I said our economy was arranged around it and when you take away redistribution, Lays will lose 90% of its business, people will lose their jobs, the people serving them will lose their jobs, and so on and so forth.

SnarkySack wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 9:59am:
Redistributing money is what keeps the economy going .  But the best way for money to be redistributed is through the free market.  The worst way is by the government.


I am agreeing with you. I'm just saying there's going to be a chain reaction and the economy's going to take a major hit when Lays loses 90% of its business. Who are the people horking down crisps? Poor welfare people make up a lot of this business. Do you see my point about the way the economy has grown up and the chain reaction?
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #66 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 8:54am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 12:40am:
I didn't say it wasn't a loss. I said our economy was arranged around it and when you take away redistribution, Lays will lose 90% of its business, people will lose their jobs, the people serving them will lose their jobs, and so on and so forth.


What you should do is look at history.

Start with the New Deal, which did nothing to create jobs or raise wages.
Follow it's failure into WWII, where huge numbers of jobs were created, but wage controls kept wages at Depression levels.
Then look at what happened when the war ended- almost all of the New Deal programs were ended. Three million service men and women were thrown out of work. Wage and price controls were lifted and the economy became once again mostly free.

The result was a long period of growth and prosperity. Wages and salaries rose, wealth was created in unheard of amounts, innovation and creativity thrived, jobs were created. New industries were created.

Had you been commentating at the end of WWII, you would have been advocating for keeping the New Deal and wage and price controls in place and keeping all those service people in the employ of the government, because the economy at that time was "arranged around" those things and would certainly collapse unless the government continued to interfere in the way they had been interfering.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #67 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 3:09pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 8:54am:
Had you been commentating at the end of WWII, you would have been advocating for keeping the New Deal and wage and price controls in place and keeping all those service people in the employ of the government, because the economy at that time was "arranged around" those things and would certainly collapse unless the government continued to interfere in the way they had been interfering.


First of all I'm not advocating keeping the redistribution. I'm just saying getting rid of it will have consequences for companies which largely serve the welfare market, and that will have a chain reaction.

Secondly, there are major differences between 1945 and now. One I can think of is that 1% of the people didn't grow 90% of our food. This was before the "get big or get out" era of farming. Almost anyone could break into the business.

And I never said collapse. I said it would have serious consequences.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Suffrage a Hinderance to Libertarianism?
Reply #68 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 3:16pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 3:09pm:
First of all I'm not advocating keeping the redistribution. I'm just saying getting rid of it will have consequences for companies which largely serve the welfare market, and that will have a chain reaction.

Secondly, there are major differences between 1945 and now. One I can think of is that 1% of the people didn't grow 90% of our food. This was before the "get big or get out" era of farming. Almost anyone could break into the business.

And I never said collapse. I said it would have serious consequences.
Things are always different. Luddites always think everything has already been invented and there are no more opportunities.

At the end of WWII, almost every business and industry in the country, including farms, were serving the War Market.

According to your theory, stopping war production should have collapsed almost every industry and caused a chain reaction of economic collapse across the nation.

You are right to point out that our governments are currently erecting serious barriers in front of anyone wanting to start a business...

Lets get rid of them too, they currently have serious bad consequences.
  
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