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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy (Read 772 times)
Don_G
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #20 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 12:55pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 6:00pm:
You think it's purely political when they rule that "Great Society" programs are Constitutional, or when they rule that the right to bear arms is fundamental?

Think carefully before you answer. One is political and the other isn't. Take your time.


You Scotus tells you when it's political by deciding 5-4 and when the 5 and the 4 are the same members of the court.

You only have to look up the number of decisions that have gone that way. Fwiw, hardly any should have perhaps 10% could be legitimate coincidences.

You can argue with me on your Scotus and the other branches of your government being corrupt if you like but you'll only find that we agree on the corruption.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #21 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:17pm
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You Scotus tells you when it's political by deciding 5-4 and when the 5 and the 4 are the same members of the court.




That's exactly right.  Or when four consistently vote one way, four another and one is a "swing vote" that everyone holds their breath for.   That dynamic is fine for elected lawmakers.  If we accept that the judicial branch is the ultimate arbiter of the law, the job of a judge should be much more boring than that.  Just reading the constitution and laws, reading precedents (which were based on the constitution and laws) and ruling consistently with the constitution and laws.  If they did that, they would have far fewer cases, because the constitution's language isn't that complicated.

Instead people wait until the USSC seems "friendly" to their political goals and then bring cases designed to give cover to the justices to say that a change the voters won't stand for is actually required by the constitution.  We just never noticed, for example, that more than two hundred years ago, the founders put in a requirement that states allow same-sex marriage and that states forbid same-gender locker rooms.


They don't want to just go by the words of the constitution because they believe that they are smarter than everyone else or they wouldn't be senior federal judges, amiright?  They want to leave a legacy of making important changes to society and that requires activism. 




  

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Don_G
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #22 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:28pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:17pm:
That's exactly right.  Or when four consistently vote one way, four another and one is a "swing vote" that everyone holds their breath for.   That dynamic is fine for elected lawmakers.  If we accept that the judicial branch is the ultimate arbiter of the law, the job of a judge should be much more boring than that.  Just reading the constitution and laws, reading precedents (which were based on the constitution and laws) and ruling consistently with the constitution and laws.  If they did that, they would have far fewer cases, because the constitution's language isn't that complicated.

Instead people wait until the USSC seems "friendly" to their political goals and then bring cases designed to give cover to the justices to say that a change the voters won't stand for is actually required by the constitution.  We just never noticed, for example, that more than two hundred years ago, the founders put in a requirement that states allow same-sex marriage and that states forbid same-gender locker rooms.


They don't want to just go by the words of the constitution because they believe that they are smarter than everyone else or they wouldn't be senior federal judges, amiright?  They want to leave a legacy of making important changes to society and that requires activism. 






Refer to Jeff's post #6.

My point is that your SCOTUS is purely political and you've backed my point.

And quite a bit more that I'm not really interested in debating right now.  Suffice to say I don't agree with much of what you say.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #23 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:37pm
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Refer to Jeff's post #6.

My point is that your SCOTUS is purely political and you've backed my point.

And quite a bit more that I'm not really interested in debating right now.  Suffice to say I don't agree with much of what you say.


Let me guess:  You believe that, to James Madison, one of the most important parts of the constitution was that boys get to shower with girls as long as the boy feels like a girl?


  

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Don_G
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #24 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:37pm:
Let me guess:  You believe that, to James Madison, one of the most important parts of the constitution was that boys get to shower with girls as long as the boy feels like a girl?




I really don't dwell on the question because I'm not all wrapped up in concern over it.

This is an area of great concern for an extremist while most people who live in Canada New Jersey don't choose to take the issue to the extreme.

When it's not dwelt upon and taken to an extreme, it somehow works adequately well and that's the point that you are so far incapable of understanding.

It's one of the main differences between the US (Texas) and Canada New Jersey that I'm working to get across to you and the others.

This serves as an example but it's so applicable to everything else.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #25 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 2:00pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:37pm:
Let me guess:  You believe that, to James Madison, one of the most important parts of the constitution was that boys get to shower with girls as long as the boy feels like a girl?


It's actually questions of equality under the law and rights and liberty that lead to cases like this, but no one in their right mind could expect that courts would be ruling on completely subjective feelings about a misused term (gender).

Were it not for having too many "progressives" in our lower courts, no case like that would have ever proceeded. The District courts would have asked for proof that a reasonable person would believe a biological man was a woman just because he "felt" that way. Lacking any such proof, they should have tossed the case out of court and men who feel like women could go on doing what they've always done.

Instead, "progressive" judges listen to witch doctors who conjure up images of harm to society if psychological misfits aren't allowed to have their way.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #26 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 2:07pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
It's actually questions of equality under the law and rights and liberty that lead to cases like this, but no one in their right mind could expect that courts would be ruling on completely subjective feelings about a misused term (gender).

Were it not for having too many "progressives" in our lower courts, no case like that would have ever proceeded. The District courts would have asked for proof that a reasonable person would believe a biological man was a woman just because he "felt" that way. Lacking any such proof, they should have tossed the case out of court and men who feel like women could go on doing what they've always done.

Instead, "progressive" judges listen to witch doctors who conjure up images of harm to society if psychological misfits aren't allowed to have their way.


Canada New Jersey is more progressive/regressive than your country the US and they we can get by without having to endlessly debate the question.

I think the big problem is that there has to be two opposite opinions expressed by you people and that will eventually mandate it be taken to the Scotus.

While the others find solutions to the problem without too much government interference. If any?

It's not just this example, it's the practice. Can you learn anything from that?
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #27 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 2:35pm
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I think the big problem is that there has to be two opposite opinions expressed by you people and that will eventually mandate it be taken to the Scotus.
Opposing opinions are not cause for legal action. It takes more than that Donat.

In the instant case, DACA, Obama pretended he had some power to defer enforcement of the law, which he didn't. Rescinding Obama's illegal order and applying the law instead is no-brainer legal.

It wouldn't hurt at all to have the Supreme Court take up the issue of the true extent of Executive power, which doesn't extend to altering or ignoring the laws.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #28 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 2:42pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Opposing opinions are not cause for legal action. It takes more than that Donat.


It was really nothing but the fact that the issue on gay rights or transvestite rights is dwelt upon more in your country than in mine other.

This is directed at the problem of two positions in opposite polarity in your country and so it will be. I see it as desirable to dispense with that.

I think it likely will be fairly shortly when the people come to realize it's too costly to the country.

Trump is costing your country dearly right now and you need to get rid of him some way. The hitch is that you might have to decide with the Dems to do it. That's probably impossible so you'll have to do it some other way.

I'm hoping that siding with the FBI can be seen as not siding with the Dems?

It's a terrible position as is because of the hint that Trump is on the side of better relations with Russia. I maintain he really isn't but needs to make it look that way. It's really about something else involving the Russians.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Ninth Circuit Ruling on DACA Shows America is a Judiocracy
Reply #29 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 2:59pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:15pm:
Yes. The courts are our last bastion of hope for justice.

Now that they are corrupt, where should we turn?


The rule of law. The idea that if two people did the exact same thing, the courts can't declare it legal in one case and declare the other man guilty.

All a court should be able to do is determine whether a certain person did a certain action. When they stick to that, the potential for corruption is limited.

This is, of course, an authoritarian idea rather than a libertarian one. Libertarians like the rule of courts, not the rule of law.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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