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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax (Read 2355 times)
Don_G
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #20 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 12:41pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 12:30pm:
[b]To be honest, I don't really care what anyone thinks.
 

I can tell you don't really care!  Grin

Quote:
I'm glad you approved!  It means a lot. Smiley


I'm delirious with our new found agreement on all the new user fees we're promoting for the libertarian standard. We need to try to get unanimous support for your ideas!

Aw gee, I can't help it.  Smiley

Maybe even another one!  Wink
  
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Jeff
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #21 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 12:46pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 11:59am:
If you USE gasoline, you pay a Gasoline Tax.
So? A fee for use is when you rent something or otherwise pay to use someone's property.

A tax on something you choose to buy is not a fee, it's a tax.

Edit: The tax on gasoline is presented as a road use tax, the proceeds of which are supposed to go to maintaining and building roads. They don't. They get dumped into the general fund and spent as soon as they arrive, just like every other tax.

If it was the "business" of the government to operate toll roads, that would be a better way of doing it, make them toll roads.

I don't think that's a proper function of government.

As for the rest, I buy alcohol and tobacco. The tax on them is an excise tax. What I do with them after I buy them is not your business, but I'll tell you anyway- I don't use them. I put them into storage so I can sell them after the apocalypse and be rich!
  
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AlayneLeung
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #22 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 2:38pm
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Also, let's remember that I did encourage higher fines for bad driving choices:

http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1461944351/40#43

And tariffs that the CIA & CPSC can impose on countries that don't value human rights.

http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1407137246/127#127

And have copyright registration fees be directly proportional to quantity of ASCII characters per work like for example 1 penny per 5 ASCII characters and 1 penny per 5 pixels of a picture or diagram.

Those fines and fees in addition to tariffs and sin taxes could really lessen income taxation.
  
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kaz
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #23 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:13pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 1:17am:
I admit it - I'm looking forward to the government shutting down.  Less government = more liberty!

“No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session.” - Gideon J. Tucker


Thumbs up!  As a start to balancing the budget, everyone who goes home as being not essential should on Monday get their pink slip making it permanent.  That would only be a start to right sizing the government, but we already identified the most useless ones, so let's start there
  

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kaz
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #24 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
So? A fee for use is when you rent something or otherwise pay to use someone's property.

A tax on something you choose to buy is not a fee, it's a tax.

Edit: The tax on gasoline is presented as a road use tax, the proceeds of which are supposed to go to maintaining and building roads. They don't. They get dumped into the general fund and spent as soon as they arrive, just like every other tax.

If it was the "business" of the government to operate toll roads, that would be a better way of doing it, make them toll roads.

I don't think that's a proper function of government.

As for the rest, I buy alcohol and tobacco. The tax on them is an excise tax. What I do with them after I buy them is not your business, but I'll tell you anyway- I don't use them. I put them into storage so I can sell them after the apocalypse and be rich!


Let's just have one, flat, national sales tax.  Government shouldn't be charging different tax rates for every item we buy
  

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Jeff
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #25 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:26pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Thumbs up!  As a start to balancing the budget, everyone who goes home as being not essential should on Monday get their pink slip making it permanent.  That would only be a start to right sizing the government, but we already identified the most useless ones, so let's start there
Good idea! If we were to be lucky, lots of the "essential" workers would go on strike in support of their Brothers and Sisters and Others who were fired, then they could be fired too! It could snowball...

After all those people were fired, there wouldn't be anyone left but the incompetent slackers who have been promoted into "management" positions, and when they find out the are, for the first time ever, going to be required to work, they will quit!

At that point, nobody is left but the Secretary of the Department or Head of the Agency, and since they have no workers, we don't need them!

Great idea! Thanks again!
  
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kaz
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #26 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:26pm:
Good idea! If we were to be lucky, lots of the "essential" workers would go on strike in support of their Brothers and Sisters and Others who were fired, then they could be fired too! It could snowball...

After all those people were fired, there wouldn't be anyone left but the incompetent slackers who have been promoted into "management" positions, and when they find out the are, for the first time ever, going to be required to work, they will quit!

At that point, nobody is left but the Secretary of the Department or Head of the Agency, and since they have no workers, we don't need them!

Great idea! Thanks again!


Can you translate that from drunken stupor to English?
  

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Jeff
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #27 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:30pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Let's just have one, flat, national sales tax. 
We've had this discussion. It's a VAT in substance. It distorts the economy too much for an economy saddled with one to work well.

Which countries currently levying VATs are your favorites?

Which ones have a VAT as their only tax?

Which ones reduced the size of their government or it's spending after enacting a VAT?
  
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kaz
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #28 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
We've had this discussion. It's a VAT in substance. It distorts the economy too much for an economy saddled with one to work well


It's not a VAT.  I've explained it to you enough times.  You can read a variety of sites on how a VAT works.  And a national sales tax replacing all other taxes would be the least distorting way to tax as all sales are treated equally

Jeff wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
Which countries currently levying VATs are your favorites?


Irrelevant since I'm not proposing a VAT, I'm proposing a national Sales tax.  VATs involve a boat load of bookkeeping that Sales taxes don't involve

Jeff wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
Which ones have a VAT as their only tax?


Ask someone advocating a VAT

Jeff wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
Which ones reduced the size of their government or it's spending after enacting a VAT?


We're talking tax collection, not spending.  The idea is to do less damage to the economy in collecting taxes for government revenue.  Spending is a separate topic
  

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Jeff
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #29 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:50pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
Can you translate that from drunken stupor to English?
What didn't you understand?

I'll put it as simply as I can-

1) All of the "unessential workers are fired (your idea).

2) Lot's of the "essential" workers go on strike in support.

3) All of the strikers are fired for striking illegally. (they are "essential" remember).

4) The "Managers" who are left all quit, because now that all the workers are gone, they have to do the work.

5) Since nobody is left but the Secretary of Education, she will graciously offer her resignation.

That's the best I can do.
  
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