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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax (Read 2351 times)
Jeff
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #50 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:53am
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What If? wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 1:08am:
But at the same time I find the concept of contracting privately for services such as rubbish collection.


Sure, trash collection can be completely privatized. I don't see why not.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #51 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:40am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:49am:
My point is that in order to live in any community of people, you must make concessions to their equal right to be free, and that necessarily involves some constraints on your perfect freedom, just as their to perfect freedom is constrained by your equal rights.


Sure, like my right to swing my fist ends somewhere before another person's nose.  By the same token, your right to send your kids to a government school ends somewhere before your hands goes into my wallet.

  

Snarky no more!
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genepool
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #52 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 8:01am
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I do not like income taxes.

Why?

Because I want to be rich. I want my money to grow tax free.

With property tax I can save money by living on small land. With sales tax I can save money by buying less.

I also think that property tax is fair. Governments provide police, roads, and facilities. That improves land price.

If government tax land, I can tell voters kings or whatever rulers in a country look, you better legalize weed and fill prisons with real criminals instead. People would flock here and land price will go up, and you will get more money out of it.

With income taxes, there is no such link. I make more money because I work harder and smarter. How does that motivate people to make their country attractive for immigrants? If anything voters just want immigrants out. The only incentive is I would go to another country with lower tax or moving my company out.

It's not about just freedom. Free market is fair. However, not everything fair has to be done through market mechanism. States themselves are players in free market. If you don't like it you can live.

It also resolves dilemma about border controls.


If a state is well governed, the land tax in that state, and hence rent will high. Just ask any immigrants, can you afford rent? Reject those who can't. Hell.... Well governed countries are rare. Well governed countries that respect libertarian principles are practically unicorn.

If there is such country, I would love to pay visa to stay there. The citizens and rulers in such countries deserve it. That means head taxes though. I would avoid countries with high income taxes like plague.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #53 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 11:48am
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genepool wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 8:01am:
Well governed countries that respect libertarian principles are practically unicorn.

If there is such country, I would love to pay visa to stay there. The citizens and rulers in such countries deserve it. That means head taxes though.

My Guest Visa program accomplishes this goal:

Immigrants pay a flat rate ($500) for a 12-month Guest Visa which allows them to come and go freely.

This visa can renewed indefinitely, however the rate is progressive, meaning the fee doubles with each renewal;

Initial Guest Visa . . . . . . . . . . . $500

1st renewal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $1000

2nd renewal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$2000

3rd renewal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $4000

4th renewal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $8000 

etc, etc...
  
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Jeff
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #54 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 2:29pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 11:48am:
My Guest Visa program accomplishes this goal:

Immigrants pay a flat rate ($500) for a 12-month Guest Visa which allows them to come and go freely.

This visa can renewed indefinitely, however the rate is progressive, meaning the fee doubles with each renewal;

Initial Guest Visa . . . . . . . . . . . $500

1st renewal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $1000

2nd renewal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$2000

3rd renewal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $4000

4th renewal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $8000 

etc, etc...
This is something new, the progressive increase in the visa fee...

I'd say, if the first year worked out well, the renewal should be free so long as the visitor applied for citizenship.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #55 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 3:08pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 2:29pm:
This is something new, the progressive increase in the visa fee...

I'd say, if the first year worked out well, the renewal should be free so long as the visitor applied for citizenship.

The whole point of the Guest Visa is so immigrants who don't want to wait months (or YEARS) for citizenship can gain legal status and travel freely to, from and within the US for 12 months.

There is no need to qualify for asylum status.  80% of asylum seekers are rejected, BTW

The entire Guest Visa application process should take less than 20 minutes.

The plan solves virtually ALL of the humanitarian snafus that democrats and republicans constantly moan about.

The best part is, the Guest Visa plan pays for itself, so taxpayers are not burdened with funding the program.

A perfect libertarian solution to sensible and legal immigration!
  
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Jeff
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #56 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 3:29pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 3:08pm:
The whole point of the Guest Visa is so immigrants who don't want to wait months (or YEARS) for citizenship can gain legal status and travel freely to, from and within the US for 12 months.

Making the path to citizenship much faster is a key part of good immigration laws. Months is certainly not unreasonable.

This is part of our current problem-

https://www.cato.org/blog/no-one-knows-how-long-legal-immigrants-will-have-wait

I worked with an Englishman back in the '90s who was married to an American Citizen who was a lawyer. When I met him, he'd been trying to become a citizen for five years. He'd been working at a very good job in the aviation industry on a green card visa since he first came to the U.S.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #57 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 3:43pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 3:29pm:
Making the path to citizenship much faster is a key part of good immigration laws. Months is certainly not unreasonable.


Fine. What about the immigrant who wants to come to the US TODAY?

He/she fills out a Guest Visa application, and 20 minutes later, he/she enters the US to travel freely for a year.

Who would possibly complain about that?   Immigrants would be tripping over themselves for a chance to buy a Guest Visa.
  
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Jeff
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #58 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 3:55pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 3:43pm:
Fine. What about the immigrant who wants to come to the US TODAY?

He/she fills out a Guest Visa application, and 20 minutes later, he/she enters the US to travel freely for a year.

That's great, but if they don't want to become citizens, why keep upping the ante on the guest visa charge? I'm thinking most of the people who apply for a guest visa for a year want to work while they are here and take money home. That's fine. The one's who want to become citizens should be able to without waiting years and years.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: I don’t understand libertarian opposition to income tax
Reply #59 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 5:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 3:55pm:
That's great, but if they don't want to become citizens, why keep upping the ante on the guest visa charge?

Because we can.  If they think the price is too high, they can purchase a Guest Visa from a different country which is cheaper. 

There will always be people who will jump at the chance for a Guest Visa - regardless of the price.

A Free Market solution!   Smiley
  
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