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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . " (Read 408 times)
SnarkySack
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Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Jan 21st, 2018 at 12:59am
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I wish I could find the post from Friday, so I'll have to dispute it from memory.  It was from one of the more intelligent posters.

Really doesn't work that way.  You could say that Hitler was libertarian on the issue of whether people had the freedom to murder Jews, or Jefferson was libertarian on the issue of whether people were free to rape their slaves, but the problem with that argument is that those supposedly libertarian beliefs don't stem from any valuation of freedom. 

People who only want marijuana to be legalized value marijuana, not freedom.  People who only want taxes to be reduced value tax reduction, not freedom.  People who believe that we need conscription to have an army to protect freedom believe only in freedom for themselves since they are invariably those who have refused to volunteer to defend their country.

I'm not saying libertarianism is all or nothing.  But I do say that if your reaction to most questions it to make the pro-freedom argument, you are much more libertarian than a person who argues for continuation of government power "except for this one thing "  I guess I would say that libertarianism is "most or nothing."  You can't be libertarian on only one or two issues, is my point. 


  

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SkyChief
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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #1 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 2:40am
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I think you're referring to this gaffe:

The Opposition wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
I bet Don would test more libertarian than anyone else on this forum...


  
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The Opposition
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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #2 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 3:02am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 12:59am:
It was from one of the more intelligent posters.


*cough cough*

The Opposition wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Land of Freedom wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 3:14pm:
I think he's a leftist, not libertarian.


Leftists and libertarians have a lot in common, like social liberties and open borders.

Most people on the forum lean far right of true libertarian. I bet Don would test more libertarian than anyone else on this forum on free international trade and migration.


Impeccable memory, too.

SnarkySack wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 12:59am:
Really doesn't work that way.  You could say that Hitler was libertarian on the issue of whether people had the freedom to murder Jews, or Jefferson was libertarian on the issue of whether people were free to rape their slaves, but the problem with that argument is that those supposedly libertarian beliefs don't stem from any valuation of freedom. 

People who only want marijuana to be legalized value marijuana, not freedom.  People who only want taxes to be reduced value tax reduction, not freedom.  People who believe that we need conscription to have an army to protect freedom believe only in freedom for themselves since they are invariably those who have refused to volunteer to defend their country.


You have a point, to a point.

One thing you might find if you had some sort of pureheart-crystal reader and you could gauge peoples' motives effectively in the way you're describing, ruling out the people who only pretend to believe in ideology X because it brings them personal advantage...

...is that there are no ideologues. None. Your basket of ideologues would be empty.

It's no secret that the rich man is more often a free-market capitalist and the welfare parasite is more often a redistributionist.

Do you even find any rich socialists beyond those who can use it to push for personal power?

Do you even find any welfare queens who are secretly voting for Trump?

I simply don't have that much faith in humanity. I imagine that if you found these people, they would be dupes or shills.

I have, however, selected to follow libertarianism as an ideology in part because it harms me personally far more than any other ideology.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #3 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 8:05am
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Jefferson was not a rapist and didn't support slavery.

https://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-slav...

Donat is every bit as authoritarian as The Opposition.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #4 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 9:51am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 8:05am:


I'm sure you didn't read your own article much past the first sentence.  If you had you would have seen:

But Jefferson always maintained that the decision to emancipate slaves would have to be part of a democratic process; abolition would be stymied until slaveowners consented to free their human property together in a large-scale act of emancipation.  To Jefferson, it was anti-democratic and contrary to the principles of the American Revolution for the federal government to enact abolition or for only a few planters to free their slaves.

Now, that is absurd.  If Jefferson want to end slavery, but only through the process of democracy, why not let Black citizens vote?  Slavery would have been ended as soon as an election could be scheduled.  Even moreso if women were allowed to vote.  They probably didn't like rapists any more than Sally Hemings did.

How would it have been "undemocratic" for a few planters (by this Jefferson meant himself) to free their slaves?  That would have been the perfect free market solution.  Free his slaves and offer them jobs on his plantation.  He could have gotten them for low wages or even just for room and board which was his cost under slavery.  Not like they would have all left and enrolled in community college.  It was against the law to even teach a Black citizen to read and write.  That's the reason you haven't been able to find those love letters from Sally Hemings to Jefferson.  That and the fact that fifteen year old girls rarely write love letters to middle aged men who rape them.

BTW, the part in blue tells a literate person that Jefferson would have fully supported the Confederacy.


  

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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #5 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 9:55am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 8:05am:
Jefferson was not a rapist and didn't support slavery.

https://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-slav...

Donat is every bit as authoritarian as The Opposition.


He OWNED slaves.  He didn't even free them in his will when he died.  You've repeatedly called for the death of slavers.  What is wrong with you?  ODD, oy vey
  

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kaz
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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #6 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 9:56am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 12:59am:
You could say that Hitler was libertarian on the issue of whether people had the freedom to murder Jews, or Jefferson was libertarian on the issue of whether people were free to rape their slaves, but the problem with that argument is that those supposedly libertarian beliefs don't stem from any valuation of freedom


You have the right to do whatever you want, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT INFRINGE ON THE RIGHT OF OTHERS TO DO THE SAME.

Seriously, you don't see murder and slavery as violating that concept?  This is as stupid a thread as the idea that Don the Troll is in any way a libertarian
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #7 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 9:57am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 3:02am:
*cough cough*


"Intelligent" is saying Don would test libertarian?  OMG, what a delusional git
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #8 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 1:55pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 12:59am:
I wish I could find the post from Friday, so I'll have to dispute it from memory.  It was from one of the more intelligent posters.

Really doesn't work that way.  You could say that Hitler was libertarian on the issue of whether people had the freedom to murder Jews, or Jefferson was libertarian on the issue of whether people were free to rape their slaves, but the problem with that argument is that those supposedly libertarian beliefs don't stem from any valuation of freedom. 

People who only want marijuana to be legalized value marijuana, not freedom.  People who only want taxes to be reduced value tax reduction, not freedom.  People who believe that we need conscription to have an army to protect freedom believe only in freedom for themselves since they are invariably those who have refused to volunteer to defend their country.

I'm not saying libertarianism is all or nothing.  But I do say that if your reaction to most questions it to make the pro-freedom argument, you are much more libertarian than a person who argues for continuation of government power "except for this one thing "  I guess I would say that libertarianism is "most or nothing."  You can't be libertarian on only one or two issues, is my point. 




REAL libertarians don't sit around imagining shit like you suggested. That gets you nowhere fast.

I imagine freedom and liberty and then go to the polls and vote for the party that demands it be so.

That's the reason why I'm happy all the time in Canada New Jersey.

Canada rates as one of the happiest countries in the world, but not quite as happy as the Scandinavian countries and other European countries.

Ask me for proof!

What is more libertarian than liberty and freedom. Isn't it more important that we libertarians actually have liberty and freedoms, as opposed to arguing about how to get there? And never ever coming close to being there??

A real libertariand doesn't want to eliminate government, we just want responsible government that will automatically become smaller by itself. Nobody in Canada New Jersey is fussing and bitching and complaining all the time about the size of government.

So why are all the pseudo-libertarians so unhappy?

I think some of them at least are pissed off that baby jesus promised to rapture you all up and he hasn't made good on it yet. Backsliding bastard!
  
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kaz
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Re: Someone Said "Don is More Libertarian than Anyone Else on . . . "
Reply #9 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 1:58pm
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Don_G wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 1:55pm:
REAL libertarians don't sit around imagining shit like you suggested. That gets you nowhere fast.

I imagine freedom and liberty and then go to the polls and vote for the party that demands it be so.

That's the reason why I'm happy all the time in Canada New Jersey.

Canada rates as one of the happiest countries in the world, but not quite as happy as the Scandinavian countries and other European countries.

Ask me for proof!

What is more libertarian than liberty and freedom. Isn't it more important that we libertarians actually have liberty and freedoms, as opposed to arguing about how to get there? And never ever coming close to being there??

A real libertariand doesn't want to eliminate government, we just want responsible government that will automatically become smaller by itself. Nobody in Canada New Jersey is fussing and bitching and complaining all the time about the size of government.

So why are all the pseudo-libertarians so unhappy?

I think some of them at least are pissed off that baby jesus promised to rapture you all up and he hasn't made good on it yet. Backsliding bastard!


Canada, Scandinavian countries?

So you think that happiness are countries that are funded with huge fossil fuel surpluses that are heating the earth, boiling the oceans and threatening the planet?

Of course you do.  Socialists are greedy hypocrites
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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