Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 13 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Detailed examples of free markets doing well? (Read 1587 times)
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #10 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 1:42pm
Print Post  
Quote:
You're expressing fear of the new guy actually accepting that which you fear could lead to a rational discussion. If he buys into it with you then I would be wasting time talking to him anyway.

He came to a libertarian forum so that makes my odds very long against me. I've always accepted that.


Agreed.  He's discovered freedom.  You're trying to sell him chains.  Why would he be interested?
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #11 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 1:43pm
Print Post  
Snarky Sack wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 1:00pm:
thatmilkman, please tell Don that you are interested in knowing more about socially responsible capitalism.  Many of us have asked him for details and he just keeps saying he's already explained it.  Do us a solid and see if you can get it out of him. 


Socially responsible government is a government that leave social responsibility to the people where it belongs
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Ex Member


Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #12 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:00pm
Print Post  
Dixcussing socially responsible government is the libertarian's biggest fear. The pseudo-libertarians are demonstrating that very clearly in nearly everything they say to put the idea down.

Gotta love it!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #13 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:11pm
Print Post  
Quote:
Dixcussing socially responsible government is the libertarian's biggest fear. The pseudo-libertarians are demonstrating that very clearly in nearly everything they say to put the idea down.

Gotta love it!


Ah, you don't mean social responsibility, you mean socialist responsibility.  Now that's a different thing entirely
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7901
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #14 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:17pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 8:36am:
There's a whole thread about Kansas around here somewhere.  Cato has decent article about why its a terrible example.  Mostly they cut taxes and increased spending and ran out of money.

Yes, the Kansas experiment was a failure before it ever started.

Reagan made this mistake in 1981.  Tax cuts and no spending cuts.  Derp!    The following year he had to roll back the previous year's tax cuts.  Understandably, people were pissed off.  How could a sitting president not understand that whenever you cut taxes, you must also cut spending? 

A 5th grader should be able to figure that out.  Sadly, Trump hasn't learned this lesson either, and announced Tax Cuts without spending cuts. 

Very Sad.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #15 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:22pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:17pm:
Yes, the Kansas experiment was a failure before it ever started.

Reagan made this mistake in 1981.  Tax cuts and no spending cuts.  Derp!    The following year he had to roll back the previous year's tax cuts.  Understandably, people were pissed off.  How could a sitting president not understand that whenever you cut taxes, you must also cut spending? 

A 5th grader should be able to figure that out.  Sadly, Trump hasn't learned this lesson either, and announced Tax Cuts without spending cuts. 

Very Sad.


Actually, Reagan cut taxes and tax revenue doubled under his administration.  This is the second time you lost to the field of economics.

Field of Economics - 2
Skychief - 0

Want to talk JFK tax cuts and go down again?
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7901
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #16 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:36pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:22pm:
Actually, Reagan cut taxes and tax revenue doubled under his administration.  This is the second time you lost to the field of economics.

Field of Economics - 2
Skychief - 0

Want to talk JFK tax cuts and go down again?

Everything I said is true.  In '82, Reagan had to roll back the Tax Cuts of '81.  It's historical fact.  Reagan's Tax cuts resulted in tripling the Federal deficit during his administration.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thatmilkman
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12
Joined: Jan 22nd, 2018
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #17 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:45pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 5:41am:
"But, that was tried and it didn't work."

Terrible argument when libertarians use it against socialism, terrible when socialists use it against libertarianism.

I've always said this but people usually shoot me down for it.

I just don't think drinking spoiled milk proves that all milk is bad. We're dealing with human beings and different populations and multitudes of other factors.

I have always advocated testing policies in a scientific way, with control groups. I actually want to see what happens. Sometimes I don't think any policies get a fair shake, and tinfoil hate time here... but I kind of suspect the enemies of those policies make sure they don't work. I think this happens to both sides, with everyone undermining eachother and no one making any headway.

If you don't have a control group - if the factor you're talking about isn't the only influencing factor - any argument based on what happened is unscientific and worthless.


> "But, that was tried and it didn't work."

Disregarding correlation too much feels dangerously close to qualifying as no true Scotsman fallacy, as Jeff touches on.

But the other extreme incorrectly assumes correlation == causation, and without controlling variables, like you said, that assumption can't reliably be made.

Since we're never going to be able to control for enough variables to accurately test economic theories to a satisfactory degree for everyone, what do you suggest using as case studies?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #18 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:48pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:36pm:
Everything I said is true.  In '82, Reagan had to roll back the Tax Cuts of '81.  It's historical fact.  Reagan's Tax cuts resulted in tripling the Federal deficit during his administration.


Revisionist history.  The 82 tax increases weren't because of the 81 cuts.  They were because of the 3-1 deal he made with Tip.  Tip of course never delivered the spending cuts he promised Reagan.  Reagan called that deal the worst mistake of his presidency.  It was of course a stupid deal agreeing to tax increases in exchange for Democrats promising to cut spending later.

And again, Reagan cut taxes and revenues doubled.  Had he not cut taxes, the government wouldn't have gotten more money.

Reagan also kicked off a 20 year bull market and economic expansion.

I know you said you do actually know more than the field of economics.  You haven't addressed though why you won't answer any of my questions.  I'm tired of asking them since you don't answer them.  But that doesn't mean that you did

  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thatmilkman
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12
Joined: Jan 22nd, 2018
Re: Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Reply #19 - Jan 24th, 2018 at 2:56pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 8:36am:
Welcome,

There's a whole thread about Kansas around here somewhere.  Cato has decent article about why its a terrible example.  Mostly they cut taxes and increased spending and ran out of money.

40s through the 80s is a unique time for a number of reasons.  After the war the US was the only country that still had an economy to speak of or any industrial base.  We were the only ones producing anything through the 50s and it wasn't until the 70s that any other nations came close to the US.  Its amazing how lack of competition really improves profits.  Also, we had a good economy through they 80s?

The 70s gave stagflation.  Also a great example for why price controls fail.  We had price controls on oil products and thus shortages.

Jeff is basically correct about socialism and its failures.


Thanks! Good info Smiley

Do you think there might be a difference between maintaining laissez faire policy and *removing* obstacles to a laissez faire policy?

I kind of notice a pattern of economies doing poorly at first when they move away from planned and toward free markets, which I'd argue makes sense seeing as a change in the devices defining resource allocation would no doubt allocate differently and cause a correction/recession.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 13
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Detailed examples of free markets doing well?
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy