Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote (Read 764 times)
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Reply #80 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 5:58pm
Print Post  
Billie wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 5:27pm:
Right. I forget about that one because I would like to get rid of it. Let's get rid of it.

Who advocated for taking that particular power from the states?
What was said in the debates on ratification? How did the people feel about it?
What could have induced the states to ratify an amendment that reduced their power?
Who controlled the state legislatures that ratified the amendment?
Were they all elected from safe gerrymandered Districts?

These are serious questions. I think it possible that the Constitution was altered without the approval of the people, and that such an amendment would be void.

But anyway, what's that got to do with a state deciding to limit the vote to women aged 18 to 65?


That would violate both the 19th and 26th amendments
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billie
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 29348
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Reply #81 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 6:59pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 5:58pm:
That would violate both the 19th and 26th amendments
Another amendment ratified by state legislatures that reduces the power of the states!

Amazing! You'd almost imagine that the states wanted to give up all of their power.

How about if a state limits the vote to free citizens aged 35 to 70 who paid income taxes the previous year? Any Constitutional prohibition there?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Reply #82 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:50pm
Print Post  
Billie wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Another amendment ratified by state legislatures that reduces the power of the states!

Amazing! You'd almost imagine that the states wanted to give up all of their power.

How about if a state limits the vote to free citizens aged 35 to 70 who paid income taxes the previous year? Any Constitutional prohibition there?


Violates the 26th amendment.  If you eliminated the ages, then it would work
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9992
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Reply #83 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 10:00pm
Print Post  
AlayneLeung wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 4:34pm:
Don_G, do you work for the US Federal Government or a private organization hired by the US Federal Government? Also, it's been years since I was at WC forums, so the reason why that male avatar picture wasn't a female avatar picture is because I think that either the admin didn't want to provide female avatar pictures or I didn't discover the means on that website to change that male avatar picture to a female avatar picture (I don't remember for certain).  And for somebody that claims to be Canadian, you posted so much of the US Constitution as topics, but you apparently didn't post much of Canada's Constitution as topics or as a topic; so why exactly did you cause that to occur?


Alayne, listen to what the pig says. Who cares? You can't win back that which your dishonesty squandered away.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billie
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 29348
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Reply #84 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 6:34am
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:50pm:
Violates the 26th amendment.  If you eliminated the ages, then it would work
Let's eliminate the 26th Amendment, then we won't have the absurd situation where a state can pass laws setting minimum ages for driving and using alcohol but are required to let 18 year olds vote.

When our states finally call a convention to fix the Constitution, they can get rid of the 16th, 17th, 23rd, and 26th Amendments as well as clarifying that there are no general powers granted by the Constitution and that the commerce and general welfare clauses specifically are not grants of general power.

It would be best to remove the word "regulate" from the Constitution, perhaps say instead that Congress shall have the duty to see that commerce between the states is free.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Reply #85 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 9:21am
Print Post  
Billie wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 6:34am:
Let's eliminate the 26th Amendment, then we won't have the absurd situation where a state can pass laws setting minimum ages for driving and using alcohol but are required to let 18 year olds vote.

When our states finally call a convention to fix the Constitution, they can get rid of the 16th, 17th, 23rd, and 26th Amendments as well as clarifying that there are no general powers granted by the Constitution and that the commerce and general welfare clauses specifically are not grants of general power.

16th - agreed, it's the 2nd worst amendment ever
17th - agreed, it's the worst amendment ever
23rd - that's kind of out of the blue.  I don't really have an issue with it and we never discussed it.  What are you looking for here?  To move DC back into Maryland?  I'd be good with that
26th/alcohol/driving - I don't get the driving.  I think we agree though there should be a single age of majority for the draft, voting, alcohol and all other priviledges
General welfare - it needs to be restated that general welfare means everyone benefits.  Like national parks, roads.  It doesn't mean specific welfare, meaning redistribution of money
Commerce clause - needs to be restated that it's ONLY INTERSTATE COMMERCE and it's only a power to expand commerce, not restrict or control it

[quote author=36282524263438410 link=1517345202/84#84 date=1517657645]It would be best to remove the word "regulate" from the Constitution, perhaps say instead that Congress shall have the duty to see that commerce between the states is free.


The problem though with the commerce and general welfare clauses is they are clear and ignored now.  I'm not sure how it can be made clear to someone who doesn't want to see it.

We have leftist judges all over the place just being dictators and completely ignoring the law.  How does changing text really solve that?
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billie
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 29348
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Reply #86 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 4:36pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 9:21am:
The problem though with the commerce and general welfare clauses is they are clear and ignored now.

No, the problem is that they have been intentionally turned into general powers.

It was discovered by people eager to have general powers that the term "regulating" could rather easily be interpreted to mean controlling.

That misconstruction is threatening to destroy America.

No power has ever been granted (approved by the people) to have government control our economy and/or  control our economic lives or the quantity and value of "money" etc.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9992
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Reply #87 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 2:55pm
Print Post  
Billie wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 4:36pm:
No, the problem is that they have been intentionally turned into general powers.

It was discovered by people eager to have general powers that the term "regulating" could rather easily be interpreted to mean controlling.

That misconstruction is threatening to destroy America.

No power has ever been granted (approved by the people) to have government control our economy and/or  control our economic lives or the quantity and value of "money" etc.


This thread could be an opportunity to examine the entire US prison system or justice system. Unfortunately everybody is afraid to do that in a sustained way. Burnsred tried it with Norway's prison system but he had to turn to mockery when he found himself agreeing with it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Convected fellons that servedthere time should have the right to vote
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy