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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable? (Read 926 times)
Billie
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #110 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:26pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 3:28pm:
He's talking about single women, not married women, Homey.

And they vote exactly as he said
Are we still in America in 1789?

It seems obvious that you have gone elsewhere.

You can't control your mind?
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #111 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:27pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:19pm:
You’ve never explained your objection to my idea of simply including consent on a ballot. But I understand Kaz’ Point about tyranny of the majority. I can’t buy that my consent is ongoing due to my ancestors presumed consent. Consent of the governed may be impossible


Ballot:  Do you consent to be governed by the US government

Translation:  Do you consent to government continuing to rob and redistribute money earned by others to you

Of course it would pass.  Just look at what government is doing now.  There are more leeches than producers.

And if you did that, it would have zero to do with classic liberalism.  Consent is not majority vote
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Billie
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #112 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:36pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:27pm:
Ballot:  Do you consent to be governed by the US government

Translation:  Do you consent to government continuing to rob and redistribute money earned by others to you

Of course it would pass.  Just look at what government is doing now.  There are more leeches than producers.

And if you did that, it would have zero to do with classic liberalism.  Consent is not majority vote
Good.

Now that that is settled, lets talk more about how we can re-limit our government pretty quickly.

I think a convention called by the States is the best hope.

Nothing I can imagine in our future unless that is done soon looks good at all...

Of course you can't deny the possibility that somebody has a government responsible to (which means subservient to) the people that authorized it and pay for it.

What a great idea!
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #113 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:42pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:27pm:
Ballot:  Do you consent to be governed by the US government

Translation:  Do you consent to government continuing to rob and redistribute money earned by others to you

Of course it would pass.  Just look at what government is doing now.  There are more leeches than producers.

And if you did that, it would have zero to do with classic liberalism.  Consent is not majority vote


I understand your point and I don't disagree.  Especially about leeches outnumbering.

Which is why I am developing a position that consent of the government is neither required, nor sufficient for a government to be legitimate.

To explain what I mean by that, imagine a libertarian government which protects our rights and nothing else.  If they voted on consent for that, perhaps the majority would say, "No, I don't consent to this.  I can't find a job that suits me and now I'm getting hungry.  I want a government that redistributes wealth, not this stupid one that protects those silly 'rights' thingies!"  Just as the slaves would never have consented to the slave-masters' constitution, it could be said that the starving layabouts would never consent to a free-marketers constitution.


Maybe a better definition of legitimate is that the government is legitimate if it performs only legitimate government tasks?  Maybe it's not an either or and some government are more legitimate than others?

Those aren't questions, I'm just "thinking out loud" so to speak.

  

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SnarkySack
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #114 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:47pm
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Billie wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:36pm:
Good.

Now that that is settled, lets talk more about how we can re-limit our government pretty quickly.

I think a convention called by the States is the best hope.

Nothing I can imagine in our future unless that is done soon looks good at all...

Of course you can't deny the possibility that somebody has a government responsible to (which means subservient to) the people that authorized it and pay for it.

What a great idea!


If there were a new constitution written and approved by current day politicians, I think it would be even more disasterous than our existing one has been.

Imagine FDR's four freedoms as the bill of rights.  Chiling and that's by far a best case scenario.  More likely there would be explicit guarantees to a "living wage" regardless of whether one works or not.   
  

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Billie
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #115 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:52pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:42pm:
I understand your point and I don't disagree. 
You realize that if half plus one of the people voting vote no, that the U.S. government is deauthorized...

But the Federal Reserve will keep giving "money" to somebody militarily powerful that they think they can buy as their "private" military? What will prevent anarchic wars between the various swamp creatures without law?

You should think your agreement through a bit.

Edit: "I don't disagree" is weaselly professional "progressive"  politician speak.
  
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Billie
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #116 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:57pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:47pm:
If there were a new constitution written and approved by current day politicians, I think it would be even more disasterous than our existing one has been.


Of course Mr. Obvious.

It won't be difficult at all to exclude politicians from the Constitutional convention.

The original dream of the founders included the hope that politicians would be ignored and tossed aside to sink or swim on their own abilities, to pry them loose from the people's tit.

Edit: Teat.
  
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #117 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:59pm
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Billie wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Of course Mr. Obvious.

It won't be difficult at all to exclude politicians from the Constitutional convention.

The original dream of the founders included the hope that politicians would be ignored and tossed aside to sink or swim on their own abilities, to pry them loose from the people's tit.


I love the idea.  How would we exclude them?

  

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SnarkySack
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #118 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 6:03pm
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Billie wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:52pm:
You realize that if half plus one of the people voting vote no, that the U.S. government is deauthorized...

But the Federal Reserve will keep giving "money" to somebody militarily powerful that they think they can buy as their "private" military? What will prevent anarchic wars between the various swamp creatures without law?

Another point I was hoping you would make.   To paraphrase, you seem to be saying that we can't ask the people whether they consent and honor their answer because if the answer is "no" it would be a disaster.   I believe that for this very reason, they would consent.  If for no other reason than to "get back" all the money they have "paid into" Social Security." 

Quote:
You should think your agreement through a bit.

Edit: "I don't disagree" is weaselly professional "progressive"  politician speak.


I chose those words carefully and they meant exactly what they said.  If I meant "I agree" I would have said "I agree."  There is a difference.  Ask me what it is.

  

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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Falsifiable?
Reply #119 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 6:05pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 5:59pm:
I love the idea.  How would we exclude them?

Make sure your state representative knows what you think about politicians. Murmur things in the back of the meeting about "traitor" and "hung", perhaps say loudly  "No, he has a right to be tried and convicted before he is hung!"

Propose people who are not politicians as delegates to the convention. Talk about the people you want to go to the convention on your behalf, and why.

Mention hanging traitors again if it seems necessary.

  
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