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BobK71
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Proof of the Deep State?
Jan 31st, 2018 at 2:00pm
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I have a hypothesis.  Think of the following major events of history:

1. The Western de-monetization of silver in favor of gold in the 1860s and 70s.

2. Britain and the US joining World War I, for no real reason except getting massive numbers of people killed to stop Germany from dominating Europe.

3. The cultivation of US-India ties going at least as far back as the 1990s.

4. The nurturing of Bitcoin and crypto-currencies (mark my words: they'll do well!)

What these events have in common is that they were not exactly by popular demand (Americans were down right against joining World War I, until the 1917 Espionage Act made it illegal to publish anti-war commentary.)  And they were not something short-sighted politicians would be interested in.  The vast majority of members of the elite classes probably never understood them.

They were/are careful, patient, away-from-the-limelight, long-sighted, if not long-range, projects, that fundamentally improved the position of the Western state-bank alliance's global empire.  (More specifically, improving the power of the empire to blow and support financial bubbles.)

So is this proof that there *is* a shadowy deep state with only a small membership, which is not only more powerful than anything else, but which must be internally unified before their members can go out and implement decisions in lock step, without confusion?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #1 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:39pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 2:00pm:
I have a hypothesis.  Think of the following major events of history:

1. The Western de-monetization of silver in favor of gold in the 1860s and 70s.

2. Britain and the US joining World War I, for no real reason except getting massive numbers of people killed to stop Germany from dominating Europe.

3. The cultivation of US-India ties going at least as far back as the 1990s.

4. The nurturing of Bitcoin and crypto-currencies (mark my words: they'll do well!)

What these events have in common is that they were not exactly by popular demand (Americans were down right against joining World War I, until the 1917 Espionage Act made it illegal to publish anti-war commentary.)  And they were not something short-sighted politicians would be interested in.  The vast majority of members of the elite classes probably never understood them.

They were/are careful, patient, away-from-the-limelight, long-sighted, if not long-range, projects, that fundamentally improved the position of the Western state-bank alliance's global empire.  (More specifically, improving the power of the empire to blow and support financial bubbles.)

So is this proof that there *is* a shadowy deep state with only a small membership, which is not only more powerful than anything else, but which must be internally unified before their members can go out and implement decisions in lock step, without confusion?


My opinion Bob is that it's no different than with the British empire or even the Roman empire. It's human nature to empire build if a nation state thinks it has the power to do so.

I think that the strength of empire will be more important in the future than it's been in the past due to dwindling world resources.

Another huge difference is the fact that two, three, or more large powerful nations are going to be directly competing for wealth. Wealth that is beoming more essential to survival.

Our saving grace in MAD, or the nuclear deterrent.

In my opinion this is the reason for the phony demonization of Russia, and the China demonization is starting too. Not to suggest the US is the only guilty party. I'm not renegging on my feeling that it's human nature.

Good to hear you becoming involved in the politics!
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #2 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 9:41pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 2:00pm:
I have a hypothesis.  Think of the following major events of history:

1. The Western de-monetization of silver in favor of gold in the 1860s and 70s.

2. Britain and the US joining World War I, for no real reason except getting massive numbers of people killed to stop Germany from dominating Europe.

3. The cultivation of US-India ties going at least as far back as the 1990s.

4. The nurturing of Bitcoin and crypto-currencies (mark my words: they'll do well!)

What these events have in common is that they were not exactly by popular demand (Americans were down right against joining World War I, until the 1917 Espionage Act made it illegal to publish anti-war commentary.)  And they were not something short-sighted politicians would be interested in.  The vast majority of members of the elite classes probably never understood them.

They were/are careful, patient, away-from-the-limelight, long-sighted, if not long-range, projects, that fundamentally improved the position of the Western state-bank alliance's global empire.  (More specifically, improving the power of the empire to blow and support financial bubbles.)

So is this proof that there *is* a shadowy deep state with only a small membership, which is not only more powerful than anything else, but which must be internally unified before their members can go out and implement decisions in lock step, without confusion?


Those are more examples than proof.  There should be no need to prove its existence to the members and guests of this board.

  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Don_G
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 11:35pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 9:41pm:
Those are more examples than proof.  There should be no need to prove its existence to the members and guests of this board.



I think Bob needs to define what he visualizes as a deep state with a very small membership. If he's suggesting something similar to Bush2's gang of neocons then that's quite different from my perception.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #4 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 9:20am
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Don_G wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
My opinion Bob is that it's no different than with the British empire or even the Roman empire. It's human nature to empire build if a nation state thinks it has the power to do so.

All of this is true.  The difference with modern times though, is that finance is a much bigger factor.  Finance is a difficult and highly specialized field.  So it both requires and makes possible a small-clique, highly unified operation at the very top, from the point of view of the elites.

Don_G wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
I think that the strength of empire will be more important in the future than it's been in the past due to dwindling world resources.

Good point.

Don_G wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
Another huge difference is the fact that two, three, or more large powerful nations are going to be directly competing for wealth. Wealth that is beoming more essential to survival.

Our saving grace in MAD, or the nuclear deterrent.

Let us hope for a multi-polar world.  This is something the Western elites want badly to avoid, but may have to live with.  Nuclear weaponry is a good example of how unintended consequences of a system based on theft, deception and aggression slowly tie up the hands of the elites.

Don_G wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
In my opinion this is the reason for the phony demonization of Russia, and the China demonization is starting too. Not to suggest the US is the only guilty party. I'm not renegging on my feeling that it's human nature.


Media control is par for the course.  In these days of 24 hour Trump related comments and nothing else, you can almost use the old joke, how can you tell when the press is lying?  When their lips are moving.
Don_G wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
Good to hear you becoming involved in the politics!

  
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BobK71
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #5 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 9:29am
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SnarkySack wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 9:41pm:
Those are more examples than proof.  There should be no need to prove its existence to the members and guests of this board.


True, but, as I mentioned in another reply, the nature of this deep state is highly interesting, in that the financial element is an essential, if not central element in modern imperial power, and yet few people truly understand money.

So what we have at the top could be a lot more highly organized than most people, even those more in-the-know, who are on this board, realize.

At least something to keep in the back of your mind.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #6 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 9:38am
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Don_G wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 11:35pm:
I think Bob needs to define what he visualizes as a deep state with a very small membership. If he's suggesting something similar to Bush2's gang of neocons then that's quite different from my perception.


On that I don't have any special information.  They never seem to invite me to meetings!   All I can do is to piece together public information, hopefully in a new light.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #7 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 9:45am
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BTW, I could have used the small clique that traveled in secret to Jekyll Island to design the Federal Reserve, as an example.  (And the interesting thing there would be that, even in that small group, only one person, Paul Warburg, truly understood finance, enough to see the design through end-to-end.)

The problem with that, and most other events, is that they can be explained away with relatively innocent motivations.  Americans had refused to trust central banks for seven decades, so why wouldn't nobly minded public servants be secretive about it?

The thing about the examples I list is that they are hard to explain away like so.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #8 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 9:51am
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BobK71 wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 9:29am:
True, but, as I mentioned in another reply, the nature of this deep state is highly interesting, in that the financial element is an essential, if not central element in modern imperial power, and yet few people truly understand money.

Authoritarian governments throughout history have set themselves up with Government Central Banks or their equivalent, and Emperors and Kings have been debasing money since prehistoric times.

All that resulted directly in the prohibition in the U.S. Constitution of making anything but gold or silver "money".
  
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Jeff
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Re: Proof of the Deep State?
Reply #9 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 9:57am
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BobK71 wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 9:45am:
BTW, I could have used the small clique that traveled in secret to Jekyll Island to design the Federal Reserve, as an example.  (And the interesting thing there would be that, even in that small group, only one person, Paul Warburg, truly understood finance, enough to see the design through end-to-end.)

The problem with that, and most other events, is that they can be explained away with relatively innocent motivations.  Americans had refused to trust central banks for seven decades, so why wouldn't nobly minded public servants be secretive about it?

The thing about the examples I list is that they are hard to explain away like so.
It's pretty much an open 'secret' that "progressives" have been planning to make America (and the world!) 'better' all along, and they need coercive power to accomplish their goal.

Since many people are opposed to coercive government power, the "progressives" try to hide or disguise what they are doing, as in "If you let us control the quantity and value of "money", we will prevent normal business cycles from ever again causing a downturn, much less a recession or a depression."
  
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