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SnarkySack
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Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Feb 1st, 2018 at 7:53pm
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After Trump's very popular State of the Union Speech and the negative reactions to the Democrats' childish behavior while he made it and the utter foolishness of the Democrats putting a drooling Kennedy on as their rebuttal (in front of a car of all things!  Why not have the car sitting on a mock bridge?), now it's time to add substance to the show. 

So the GOP is going to release a memo detailing the FBI's collusion with the Dems and the Media to take down Trump with a fake investigation of a non-crime.  Partisanship aside, any move to give the public information about how the deep state treats an elected leader is a step in the right direction. 

Except . . .

The same GOP lawmakers touting the right of the public to see their memo are blocking the Dems from releasing their own memo in rebuttal.  By censoring the opposition, they lose the moral high ground and lose any claim to be acting on behalf of the electorate's right to know. 

Plus, which - Does anyone really think the Dems are not going to leak their memo?  Of course they will and the media will spin that the fact that it had to be leaked proves that it must be true because the GOP was trying to cover it up.  So the Dems can put anything they want into it and how can the GOP dispute it?

No libertarian should be supporting either party.  You want legal weed so you think the Dems are on your side?  If it were up to them, you wouldn't have enough to buy the seeds after paying your taxes.  You want to pay less taxes and you think the GOP is on your side?  Without spending cuts, tax cuts are just loans from your grandkids.




  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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kaz
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #1 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 8:20pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 7:53pm:
After Trump's very popular State of the Union Speech and the negative reactions to the Democrats' childish behavior while he made it and the utter foolishness of the Democrats putting a drooling Kennedy on as their rebuttal (in front of a car of all things!  Why not have the car sitting on a mock bridge?), now it's time to add substance to the show. 

So the GOP is going to release a memo detailing the FBI's collusion with the Dems and the Media to take down Trump with a fake investigation of a non-crime.  Partisanship aside, any move to give the public information about how the deep state treats an elected leader is a step in the right direction. 

Except . . .

The same GOP lawmakers touting the right of the public to see their memo are blocking the Dems from releasing their own memo in rebuttal.  By censoring the opposition, they lose the moral high ground and lose any claim to be acting on behalf of the electorate's right to know. 

Plus, which - Does anyone really think the Dems are not going to leak their memo?  Of course they will and the media will spin that the fact that it had to be leaked proves that it must be true because the GOP was trying to cover it up.  So the Dems can put anything they want into it and how can the GOP dispute it?

No libertarian should be supporting either party.  You want legal weed so you think the Dems are on your side?  If it were up to them, you wouldn't have enough to buy the seeds after paying your taxes.  You want to pay less taxes and you think the GOP is on your side?  Without spending cuts, tax cuts are just loans from your grandkids.






What you're saying is certainly a realistic feasibility, but wow, you're assuming a ton.  How can you say all that speculation as fact?  I'm not even sure that the memo means shit to begin with
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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SnarkySack
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #2 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 8:40pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 8:20pm:
What you're saying is certainly a realistic feasibility, but wow, you're assuming a ton.  How can you say all that speculation as fact?  I'm not even sure that the memo means shit to begin with


I  guess it's possible that the memo will be a dud.  If so, the GOP was even stupider than I just described to hype it up so much.

  

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kaz
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #3 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 8:48pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 8:40pm:
I  guess it's possible that the memo will be a dud.  If so, the GOP was even stupider than I just described to hype it up so much.



That the Republican and Democrat parties suck and are stupid sure wouldn't be an insight, unfortunately
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #4 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:03am
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 7:53pm:
I  guess it's possible that the memo will be a dud.  If so, the GOP was even stupider than I just described to hype it up so much.







Schiff spilled the beans to Rachel Maddow so she could do some early damage control. Looks like it's going to be about Carter Page and how the FBI supposedly mistreated him.

It's not a very well kept secret at all. The Russians obviously have it ahead of time, from Trump's gang so they can be proactive.

this story has got to be played into the whole thing in some way.

https://www.rt.com/usa/417650-davis-nunes-russia-spy/

It doesn't seem possible that he's a Russian spy but they may pin enough treason on him to take him down.
  
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #5 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:30am
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kaz wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 8:48pm:
That the Republican and Democrat parties suck and are stupid sure wouldn't be an insight, unfortunately
Indeed not, and it seems a waste of time to talk about them constantly...

Did you hear Nancy Pelosi referring to President Trump as "Bush" again? Or Maxine Waters raving about the Russian conspiracy against her?

Ho, hum, what's that to libertarians except more proof the TwoParties aren't good for America? AS if we needed more proof...
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #6 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:14pm
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Billie wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:30am:
Indeed not, and it seems a waste of time to talk about them constantly...

Did you hear Nancy Pelosi referring to President Trump as "Bush" again? Or Maxine Waters raving about the Russian conspiracy against her?

Ho, hum, what's that to libertarians except more proof the TwoParties aren't good for America? AS if we needed more proof...


I guess the larger point is that it isn't the current members of those parties or their ideologies which are the cause of the problems.  They are the symptoms. 

The root cause of our two party system is in our constitution combined with human nature.  It is human nature to form groups, including political parties.  Even we rugged individualist libertarians have one, even though we may not like it very much.  Our winner take all system motivates parties to oppose each other with stringent rhetoric while at the same time adjusting by adopting each other's most popular positions in order to avoid falling far behind in the legislatures or having one party keep the white house for several presidents in a row. 

This causes the present-day equlibrium between two parties which are almost indistinguishable  policy-wise.  So in order to have any issues at all to debate, they resort to accusations and counter accusations of corruption, racism, anti-Americanism, etc. and to blowing small policy differences out of proportion.
  

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kaz
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #7 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:20pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:14pm:
I guess the larger point is that it isn't the current members of those parties or their ideologies which are the cause of the problems.  They are the symptoms. 

The root cause of our two party system is in our constitution combined with human nature.  It is human nature to form groups, including political parties.  Even we rugged individualist libertarians have one, even though we may not like it very much.  Our winner take all system motivates parties to oppose each other with stringent rhetoric while at the same time adjusting by adopting each other's most popular positions in order to avoid falling far behind in the legislatures or having one party keep the white house for several presidents in a row. 

This causes the present-day equlibrium between two parties which are almost indistinguishable  policy-wise.  So in order to have any issues at all to debate, they resort to accusations and counter accusations of corruption, racism, anti-Americanism, etc. and to blowing small policy differences out of proportion.


Yes, exactly.  When there are two viable parties only in terms of winning elections, the course of least resistance is not building yourself up, it's tearing the other side down.

If two guys are standing on a football field and want to have the shortest distance to any point on the field, the way to do that is to look where the other guy is standing and stand right next to them in the direction of the majority of the field.  It's not to be different from them.   They just use rhetoric to sound different
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #8 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:59pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:14pm:
I guess the larger point is that it isn't the current members of those parties or their ideologies which are the cause of the problems.  They are the symptoms. 

The root cause of our two party system is in our constitution combined with human nature.  It is human nature to form groups, including political parties.  Even we rugged individualist libertarians have one, even though we may not like it very much.  Our winner take all system motivates parties to oppose each other with stringent rhetoric while at the same time adjusting by adopting each other's most popular positions in order to avoid falling far behind in the legislatures or having one party keep the white house for several presidents in a row. 

This causes the present-day equlibrium between two parties which are almost indistinguishable  policy-wise.  So in order to have any issues at all to debate, they resort to accusations and counter accusations of corruption, racism, anti-Americanism, etc. and to blowing small policy differences out of proportion.


You're hinting at a way to change things but you don't have any workable solutions for the problems. I think that's because libertarianism doesn't have any positive direction.

I hint at how to change things, and how things actually will be changed. And I offer a direction.

It's similar to what Bernie offered and also what Trump offered. If you went back to do an analysis of what Trump offered you would find the reason why he picked up his large following. Or at least, large enough.

Socially responsible capitalism is poison to Americans because they have been conditioned to associate social responsiblity with socialism. It will change.

Something encouraging could be happening to this forum with tomline and hist strategy. If he's as receptive to suggestions as he indicates, he may be receptive to talking about something libertarian that is real and possible.

If he does there's going to be a lot of shit flung at him because of the fear of those on this forum. The people on this forum aren't fixed on any positive agenda enough to have confidence in it and so they have to shoot down anything that's new to them. I'm sort of hoping you're above that but we'll see?

In any case, tomline needs to be treated with kid gloves. He's reaching out because he hasn't been able to make his own forum work. We can give him a platform for a while.
  
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kaz
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Re: Once Again, the GOP Determined to Pull Defeat out of Victory
Reply #9 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 1:11pm
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Don_G wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:59pm:
You're hinting at a way to change things but you don't have any workable solutions for the problems. I think that's because libertarianism doesn't have any positive direction


Yes, making our own decisions over our own lives, that's just ignorant and unfeasible.  Only a lunatic would want that.  Government has repeatedly proven how much more effectively it runs our lives than we do
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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