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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate? (Read 928 times)
SnarkySack
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So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Feb 1st, 2018 at 10:39pm
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Well, no.  I'm not at all comfortable with that.

Refusing to serve people at a business because of their skin color or other protected category is such an offensive act that it seems much more natural for it to be banned than for it not to be banned.

The free market idea that such laws are not needed because discrimination leads to loss of profits is only partially true.  It sounds good but the sad fact is that there is also money to be made by catering to the kind of vile people who would patronize a restaurant or bar that either banned certain races or was exclusive to certain races. 

Is everyone on board with the idea that a libertarian government means that they are perfectly free to discriminate and to advertise their discrimination with signs that read "No ________ s Allowed?"





  

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The Opposition
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #1 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 10:45pm
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I don't think people should be allowed to discriminate against protected minorities.

However, I've been discriminated against because I'm too smart. I've been told I'm not allowed to participate in both trivia contests and blackjack. This is perfectly fine.

If you say all discrimination should be illegal, you're denying the right to refuse service. Whenever someone is refused service, they're being discriminated against for something.

Some things should be protected. Some shouldn't.

Crystallas wrote on Dec 27th, 2017 at 11:05pm:
Egalitarianism and libertarianism are not fully compatible, as established in Rothbard's ERAN writings. So if you are trying to suggest that the rules change pending the situation, then no sh**, duh. That is the point. Because one nuisance is not equal in all circumstances, which is more why the NAP does an incredible job of defining what is just and unjust.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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SkyChief
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #2 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 11:32pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 10:45pm:
I don't think people should be allowed to discriminate against protected minorities.

However, I've been discriminated against because I'm too smart. I've been told I'm not allowed to participate in both trivia contests and blackjack. This is perfectly fine.

If you say all discrimination should be illegal, you're denying the right to refuse service. Whenever someone is refused service, they're being discriminated against for something.


Rights need to be protected.  Political correctness does not.

A proprietor of a (private) business should reserve the right to refuse service to anyone - for whatever reason.

A popular sign in the 1970's L.A. beach venues read:

NO SHIRT, NO SHOES... NO SERVICE.

And it stuck.   Nobody questioned it... Not even me, who enjoyed the civil freedom of being shirtless and shoeless.

It meant that a proprietor could kick someone out of his/her place of business based on physical appearance.

Why is this such a problem today?
  
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thermf5
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #3 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 11:53pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 11:32pm:
Rights need to be protected.  Political correctness does not.

A proprietor of a (private) business should reserve the right to refuse service to anyone - for whatever reason.

A popular sign in the 1970's L.A. beach venues read:

NO SHIRT, NO SHOES... NO SERVICE.

And it stuck.   Nobody questioned it... Not even me, who enjoyed the civil freedom of being shirtless and shoeless.

It meant that a proprietor could kick you out of his place of business based on physical appearance.

Why is this such a problem today?
cuz we want bizness to have the sell drugs to kids mind set and bats use to be male exclusively things change with time and there is a drifrence between   a private bizness discrimationing. And the government doing it there is nothing wrong with someone bleveing in God but when that take that God in to the government  it's wrong antidicration laws won't really change shit it's when the wasps find a new underclass and intagrate the new generation in to the system that discriminataed agent there for momthers and father's I think skiens me but should the government inteian in don't think so cjash is green  do I live on a nother. Planet
  
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The Opposition
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #4 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:13am
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 11:32pm:
Rights need to be protected.  Political correctness does not.

A proprietor of a (private) business should reserve the right to refuse service to anyone - for whatever reason.

A popular sign in the 1970's L.A. beach venues read:

NO SHIRT, NO SHOES... NO SERVICE.

And it stuck.   Nobody questioned it... Not even me, who enjoyed the civil freedom of being shirtless and shoeless.

It meant that a proprietor could kick someone out of his/her place of business based on physical appearance.

Why is this such a problem today?


No shirt, no shoes, no service clearly falls under things a business should be allowed to discriminate against.

Protected minorities need to be protected. It's a completely different issue.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #5 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:36am
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 10:39pm:
Well, no.  I'm not at all comfortable with that.


So don't do it. That's the idea of being free, you get to make your own choices (within limits) about how to treat other people.
  
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Jeff
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #6 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:43am
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 1st, 2018 at 10:39pm:
Refusing to serve people at a business because of their skin color or other protected category is such an offensive act that it seems much more natural for it to be banned than for it not to be banned.
You want the government to ban "offensive" acts?

Lots of people have been offended by football players kneeling during the national anthem, so I guess you think it would be "natural" to ban that act too?

Congress could satisfy you with one law that required people to serve anyone who entered their place of business and everyone to stand, take off their hat and put their hand over their heart during the national anthem...

That doesn't go far enough of course, people will still be offended by other things...

I recommend that Kalifornia pass a law criminalizing all "offensive" behavior by anyone and see how it works out.

  
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Jeff
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #7 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:44am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:13am:
Protected minorities need to be protected.
There's a technical name for statements like this. Do you know what it is?
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #8 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:58am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:36am:
So don't do it. That's the idea of being free, you get to make your own choices (within limits) about how to treat other people.



True enough.  We have a system to set those limits.  It's our democratic/republican (the ideologies, not the parties) constitution.  If that system limits our right to treat certain people in an exclusionary way, would you object to that?
  

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Jeff
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Re: So are All Libertarians Comfortable with The Right to Discriminate?
Reply #9 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 9:06am
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:58am:
True enough.  We have a system to set those limits.  It's our democratic/republican (the ideologies, not the parties) constitution.  If that system limits our right to treat certain people in an exclusionary way, would you object to that?
Absolutely, I do object if "the system" forces us to associate with "certain people".

Rights of free association are fundamental to individual Liberty.

A "system" that can force you to associate can also prevent you from associating, depending only on the current ideas of who should or should not associate with who.

It was in fact the "system" you are talking about that passed Jim Crow laws in the former slave states, laws that denied the right of free association.
  
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