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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Government Finance and Spending (Read 322 times)
Jeff
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #10 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 6:59am
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 11:05pm:
There is no difference between needing something and wanting something.
Sure their is.
Everybody needs a minimum amount of food to live.
Many people want to eat out every night at Five Star restaurants.

Greed certainly exists, but it's one of those know-it-when-you-see-it things that people define differently.

I think the Chinese Communist Party is being greedy by not sending a big pile of it's gold to Venezuela to help the starving comrades there. Other people see it differently.
  
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kaz
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:15am
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tomline wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 9:33pm:
Revenue Tax is explained


Maybe if I dig deeper into links and search your site, but it wasn't explained in the piece you linked to.  All it says is States have to contribute 1%.  1% of what?  How is that measured?  How do they collect the money?

The Opposition wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 10:15pm:
Libertarianism includes not hurting anyone.  Our treaties and trade agreements are hurting the American worker.  Something has to be done about that.  The prices of imports are so unfairly lower than prices for American products


That's a huge twist of libertarianism.  To say that if government doesn't interfere in our lives then that is hurting us is in no possible way libertarian.  Libertarian says for example if someone points a gun at you, you can defend yourself.  But you could use your logic to justify anything socialist.  If government doesn't collect social security taxes, that hurts you!  If government doesn't force employers to pay X dollars, that hurts you!  If government doesn't restrict products from those evil feriners, that hurts you!  Nothing libertarian about that, not at all

The Opposition wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 10:15pm:
I have various articles that explains this.


OK?  That's an answer?

The Opposition wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 10:15pm:
Where did you see anything I said about late fees for loans? 


Swish.  Read it again.  I said when a company has paid to produce a product/service and you have received that product service and you have not paid for it as agreed, then YOU turned it into a loan.  Everything you have not paid as agreed is now a loan.  The company you cheated is paying for that

The Opposition wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 10:15pm:
Did you read my articles?  ATM fees are different in various.  To use an ATM at a Casino, for example, you'll pay $6 or more.  Why shouldn't that be taxed?  Shouldn't we tax greed?


Sure, Comrade, we should tax greed.

You're not a very good reader.  I agreed we should tax ATM fees.  I said the socialist propaganda you're wrapping it in is what I disagree with.

Again, banks are providing you a service.  They charge what they want.  You don't like it, go to their competitor.  It's called capitalism.

That charging what they can for a product is "greed" is just your empty, Marxist rhetoric.  There are a pletura of banks.  Get off your lazy butt and find one that charges what you want to pay.  If none charge what you want to pay, then you are greedy because you want that which isn't to them worth providing.  You don't want to pay market rates.

BTW, lots of banks give a certain number of no fee transactions.  Some even give you like 3 a month at other banks.  You're really not libertarian at all.  You're trying to appeal to us, but you don't understand it to do that effectively.

Libertarianism = capitalism.  There is really no difference.  Libertarianism is just the government part of that to protect you from crimes and to provide a way to redress fraud
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #12 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:21am
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Don_G wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 11:40pm:
Have you gone off the deep end or are you just drunk and that's caused you to reveal your rabid and frothing at the mouth hate?


Just pointing about how you talk to people when you whine that I insult you back when you insult me
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #13 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:27am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 12:51am:
Need isn't a worthless concept.

But you don't need much.

A need is something that will kill you or seriously, permanently damage you if you don't get it.


Tomline is saying that when he doesn't pay his bills as agreed and they charge him fees for cheating them, it's greed.

Tomline is saying that when he uses ATMs provided for him by banks and charge him a fee for that, it's greed.

What that boils down to is that tomline wants free things.  Those aren't things he needs, those are things he wants.  And he wants government to punish businesses who don't give him what he wants.

Ironically I agree with his position that those things should be taxed.  I would just say they are part of the sale, so they should be tax accordingly.

Tomline is being greedy and wrapping that greed by calling people who charge him for his having cheated them and for providing services to him greedy.  Just like every other socialist does.

In this thread, he's displayed that he's obviously here to trawl for users for his site.  Since this is a libertarian site, he's trying to wrap his political views in libertarian concepts. 

But he shows that's fake when he tells libertarians things like that if government doesn't limit your rights then that hurts you.  That's again socialism, not libertarianism
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #14 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:29am
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tomline wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 9:21pm:
If you are going to comment on issues on my site, it would be easier if you joined.  The site is 4 years old. 


The number one rule of any moderated site is you can't trawl for users for your own site.  Obviously that's what you're here for.  You're as libertarian as Don is Canadian or Opposition is an anarchist
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #15 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:30am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 12:51am:
Need isn't a worthless concept.

But you don't need much.

A need is something that will kill you or seriously, permanently damage you if you don't get it.


Also, I believe Burnsie is pointing out (accurately) that Tomline is conflating need and want, Burnsie's not advocating that need = want.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Burnsie
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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tomline
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #16 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 12:46pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:15am:
Maybe if I dig deeper into links and search your site, but it wasn't explained in the piece you linked to.  All it says is States have to contribute 1%.  1% of what?  How is that measured?  How do they collect the money?


Isn't this enough explanation...

Quote:
This tax is twofold. We will tax the States' revenues at 1%. Since the Federal Government is built from the States up, the States have some obligation to help upkeep of the Federal Government. This concept has been lost, but that is the way it was in the early days of our Constitutional Government.

Next is a 10% tax on revenues on people and companies that have a revenue, not to be confused with an income tax. This is similar to excises or a sales tax, except it is assessed after the sale. For example. Say you go to a store and buy a candy bar for a dollar. After the sale it becomes revenue, and will be subject to this tax. Anyone that has a revenue will pay this tax. Charities will of course will be exempted if they can prove their charitableness. That means most of their revenue must go to their charitable work.

Read more: http://line2016.freeforums.net/thread/292/rescue-america-ultimate-tax-plan#ixzz5...

  
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tomline
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #17 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 12:57pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:15am:
Opposition wrote:
Quote:
Libertarianism includes not hurting anyone.  Our treaties and trade agreements are hurting the American worker.  Something has to be done about that.  The prices of imports are so unfairly lower than prices for American products


That's a huge twist of libertarianism.  To say that if government doesn't interfere in our lives then that is hurting us is in no possible way libertarian.  Libertarian says for example if someone points a gun at you, you can defend yourself.  But you could use your logic to justify anything socialist.  If government doesn't collect social security taxes, that hurts you!  If government doesn't force employers to pay X dollars, that hurts you!  If government doesn't restrict products from those evil foreigners, that hurts you!  Nothing libertarian about that, not at all.


Looks like Oppo was quoting me. 

I have a question.  Are you saying libertarianism allows you to hurt people in some ways, and not others?  Suppose you go on vacation, and when you come home, you find your home has been ransacked.  Are you hurt?

There are many ways to hurt people, and if the libertarian philosophy is true, we should not be doing those things that hurt people.
  
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tomline
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #18 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 1:00pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:29am:
The number one rule of any moderated site is you can't trawl for users for your own site.  Obviously that's what you're here for.  You're as libertarian as Don is Canadian or Opposition is an anarchist


Sorry, I didn't know that was a rule.  I won't do it again.
  
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kaz
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Re: Government Finance and Spending
Reply #19 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 1:04pm
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tomline wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 12:46pm:
Quote:
"This tax is twofold. We will tax the States' revenues at 1%. Since the Federal Government is built from the States up, the States have some obligation to help upkeep of the Federal Government. This concept has been lost, but that is the way it was in the early days of our Constitutional Government


Isn't this enough explanation...



No, I don't know what "1% of State revenues" are.   Do you mean:

1)  The State's taxable economy?

2)  Tax revenues paid to the State government?  If so, which revenues?  Income taxes?  Sales Taxes?  Business Taxes?  Business licenses?  Property taxes?  What about services, like utilities regulated by the States that are quasi government?  Trash collection?  Fees at garbage dumps?  Gas taxes and other taxes for services?

3)  Imports into the State from foreign countries and/or other States?

The term "1% of revenues" is very ambiguous
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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