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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Government interference in the free market making things worse? (Read 256 times)
kaz
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #10 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:03pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 1:52pm:
How about if you violated a contract between us, and I took you to court? That could be helpful to me.

Lucky me I never argued that wealth re-distribution was helpful to anyone except the people doing the distributing.


I'm not interested in another round of word parsing with you
  

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kaz
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #11 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:05pm
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ahhell wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
Rent control is a classic.  As it always reduces available housing and causes shortages.  Fixes like allowing market rates when someone leaves an apartment voluntarily results in dramatically increased prices for the reduced housing stock.

Farm subsidies in the US result in overproduction so food is cheap which is the desired effect.  On the other hand we have an obesity epidemic and fairly destructive farming practices.

Tariffs on sugar result in US consumers paying twice as much as everyone else and using high fructose cornsyrup instead, see above.

Tariffs on tires under obama raised the price on tires and cost the economy more than the value of jobs saved.

Steel tariffs under Bush II, same as above almost certainly contributed to the recession.

Wait and see what happens as a result of trump's tariffs.

Government subsidies home loans contributed to and probably caused the housing bubble and following recession.


Great examples
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #12 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:08pm
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ahhell wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
Rent control is a classic.  As it always reduces available housing and causes shortages


When I got my MBA at Michigan, I took an internship job in a Wall Street investment bank for the summer between my first and second year.  I was in the global investment banking group.  I rented a rent controlled apartment.  Here's how it worked.

The guy I rented it from had five rent controlled units around The City.  His wife had more.  He paid the building owner rent controlled rates for them all, he sublet them for market rates.  That's such a crock.  The building owner gets screwed because he still can't rent his units for market rates.

I filed with the rent control commission and actually got back the amount he overcharged me for the summer a couple years later.  I had no problem paying the rates he charged, but I thought it was wrong that he was stealing from the building owner for a unit he didn't even use anymore
  

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Jeff
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #13 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:37pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 11:00am:
Conflating government protecting your rights (police, courts, ...)  and government violating your rights (redistribution of wealth, ...) is a stupid argument, Jeff.
I didn't make such an argument, in fact I constantly argue that government is charged with the duty of protecting our lives and liberty and property, and that wealth re-distribution is not authorized by our Constitution.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #14 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:40pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 11:00am:
No libertarian would call the police coming to your house which was broken into government "helping" you.

Yes, in fact everyone thinks that.

If nothing else, a police report makes it easy to collect on your insurance if you have any, and it's quite helpful if the police catch the thieves and you get your property back.
  
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kaz
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #15 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:40pm:
Yes, in fact everyone thinks that.

If nothing else, a police report makes it easy to collect on your insurance if you have any, and it's quite helpful if the police catch the thieves and you get your property back.


You're word parsing again, Jeff and shifting meanings and contexts
  

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kaz
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #16 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:01pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:40pm:
Yes, in fact everyone thinks that.

If nothing else, a police report makes it easy to collect on your insurance if you have any, and it's quite helpful if the police catch the thieves and you get your property back.


This is why debating your ODD arguments is such a waste of time.  You don't mean what you're saying and don't recognize when I respond to what you said
  

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ahhell
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #17 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 4:05pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:08pm:
When I got my MBA at Michigan, I took an internship job in a Wall Street investment bank for the summer between my first and second year.  I was in the global investment banking group.  I rented a rent controlled apartment.  Here's how it worked.

The guy I rented it from had five rent controlled units around The City.  His wife had more.  He paid the building owner rent controlled rates for them all, he sublet them for market rates.  That's such a crock.  The building owner gets screwed because he still can't rent his units for market rates.

I filed with the rent control commission and actually got back the amount he overcharged me for the summer a couple years later.  I had no problem paying the rates he charged, but I thought it was wrong that he was stealing from the building owner for a unit he didn't even use anymore

I shared a place with a guy who was listed on the lease. He charged me for a little over half the rent, which was illegal but didn't mind because it was still half what I would have payed at market prices.  Years later I nearly got him evicted because my new landlord actually called the old one to verify that I payed my rent.
  
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kaz
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #18 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 4:27pm
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ahhell wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 4:05pm:
I shared a place with a guy who was listed on the lease. He charged me for a little over half the rent, which was illegal but didn't mind because it was still half what I would have payed at market prices.  Years later I nearly got him evicted because my new landlord actually called the old one to verify that I payed my rent.   


I'm sure your friend's landlord would like any reason to boot him so they can re-rent it for market rates.

Rent control is in my view a direct violation of my due process rights.  I have been convicted of no crimes, yet my right to my property is being restricted by government
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Government interference in the free market making things worse?
Reply #19 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 6:37pm
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ahhell wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 4:05pm:
I shared a place with a guy who was listed on the lease. He charged me for a little over half the rent, which was illegal but didn't mind because it was still half what I would have payed at market prices.  Years later I nearly got him evicted because my new landlord actually called the old one to verify that I payed my rent.   
What?

He let you live with him for a little over half the monthly rent and you thought that should be illegal? And you later threatened to have him arrested? Cheesy

You should have found some place to live that you didn't have to share with a criminal.
  
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