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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Racism is a Big Problem in the US. (Read 429 times)
Don_G
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Re: Racism is a Big Problem in the US.
Reply #50 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 8:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 7:35pm:
You started the thread dolt, and it isn't about racism in Canada.
It's about whatever I decide it's about. Be careful what you say because you've already made it clear you are a racist. Racism isn't tolerable on this forum and we want it to stay that way. Thanks.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Racism is a Big Problem in the US.
Reply #51 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 10:16pm
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Don_G wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 1:02pm:
Don't worry, there's nothing missing. If there was I would repost it for you to see.


Thanks, but if you you (and Kaz if he stays) still need to address my points.

To people opposing Don, he's claiming an injustice, which means that you can't necessarily refute Affirmative Action and similar catchup measures on the grounds that they don't represent equal treatment. You don't treat a criminal and a victim equally; one you lock up and the other goes free. It is because the criminal has violated rights and committed an injustice. So how do you take on catchup measures in the face of an injustice being claimed?

You have a really nasty reality problem here when it comes to achievement. Certain groups seem to miss out, so you can say it's because of their inferiority (that they really are lazy or stupid) or you can admit there's institutional discrimination.

To Don: What measures would you advocate which would, if adopted, make you say that enough has been done against racism? No first steps. What is it you're actually pushing for? I am willing to discuss it logically.

Take note that there will always be murder. There aren't people screaming and crying that not enough has been done against murderers. The law sets a punishment, and at that point, enough has been done. In the same way, there will always be racists unless you just kill all the white people, and if there is no point at which the countermeasures will ever be satisfactory, people should logically turn away from your positions in disdain, because nothing is being helped by them. There's no fixing it. So why create so much drama?
  

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Don_G
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Re: Racism is a Big Problem in the US.
Reply #52 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 10:49pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
Thanks, but if you you (and Kaz if he stays) still need to address my points.

To people opposing Don, he's claiming an injustice, which means that you can't necessarily refute Affirmative Action and similar catchup measures on the grounds that they don't represent equal treatment. You don't treat a criminal and a victim equally; one you lock up and the other goes free. It is because the criminal has violated rights and committed an injustice. So how do you take on catchup measures in the face of an injustice being claimed?


Well said Oppo.

Quote:
You have a really nasty reality problem here when it comes to achievement. Certain groups seem to miss out, so you can say it's because of their inferiority (that they really are lazy or stupid) or you can admit there's institutional discrimination.


It's more than that. The truth is that if you hold people down, as was the practice especially in the 60's and probably less so now, the problem becomes endemic. Their children and their grandchildren become disadvantaged because of what happened to their parents and grandparents back in the 60's And also those poor folks who were discriminated against back in the 60' were disadvantaged by what happened to their parent, gandparents, and great grand parents during the days of slavery.

Consider what I've said about blacks in the US as compared to blacks in other modern countries who are treated as equals because they actually are equals.

Quote:
To Don: What measures would you advocate which would, if adopted, make you say that enough has been done against racism? No first steps. What is it you're actually pushing for? I am willing to discuss it logically.


Affirmative action can only take them so far. The sickness that is racism in the US must change. Trump has accelerated it and the attitude that Trump can be supported must change. How about the people taking responsibility? How is Trump aceptable as your president. I would say it's because Americans find racism acceptable.

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Take note that there will always be murder. There aren't people screaming and crying that not enough has been done against murderers. The law sets a punishment, and at that point, enough has been done. In the same way, there will always be racists unless you just kill all the white people, and if there is no point at which the countermeasures will ever be satisfactory, people should logically turn away from your positions in disdain, because nothing is being helped by them. There's no fixing it. So why create so much drama?



Spoken like a fukking American. Obviously not enough is being done about murder in your country. No further explanation required on that fact.

Your jails are overflowing more than any other country's jails because you can't face the problem in a socially responsible way. Your country creates those murderers, as all socially corrupt countries do to a larger extent. Then in the US you execute them in order to escape the responsibility of rehabilitating them which would be facing up to the problem you extreme rightist attitudes have created.

You want to discuss it logically, you're on. Start your childish shit with me and it's off.
  
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Re: Racism is a Big Problem in the US.
Reply #53 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 6:33am
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Don_G wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 8:14pm:
It's about whatever I decide it's about. Be careful what you say because you've already made it clear you are a racist. Racism isn't tolerable on this forum and we want it to stay that way. Thanks.
I think individual racists are lame lizard brained tribal minded fools who won't learn to accept other individuals as equals as long as the government keeps practicing institutionalized racism, and for a few, not even then.

Some people will be bigots as long as tribal impulses keep seeping up out of people's lizard brains. Ignore them. Marginalize them. Scorn them as narrow mined fools, but make the government stop discriminating.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Racism is a Big Problem in the US.
Reply #54 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 12:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 6:33am:
I think individual racists are lame lizard brained tribal minded fools who won't learn to accept other individuals as equals as long as the government keeps practicing institutionalized racism, and for a few, not even then.


So government is your excuse now for your outburst of racist terms for Chinese people and others. Now you're telling us you're not one of them?

Regardless of your excuse for your obvious racist behaviour with that outburst, don't try it again because it's unacceptable.

Now we can get back to the topic and see if we're together with considering it deplorable.

Can you condemn racism? Is that the real you or are you hiding the real you again?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Racism is a Big Problem in the US.
Reply #55 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 2:59pm
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Don_G wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 10:49pm:
Affirmative action can only take them so far. The sickness that is racism in the US must change. Trump has accelerated it and the attitude that Trump can be supported must change. How about the people taking responsibility? How is Trump acceptable as your president. I would say it's because Americans find racism acceptable.


No. No more vague bullshit about change. You have standards for me so why can't I have standards for you? You're not a libertarian, you believe in equality, right?

So, what change? Right now, you realise racism by itself is legal, right? Do you want to make it illegal? People who engage in a beneficial behaviour tend to keep engaging in it unless they're forced to stop.

Don_G wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 10:49pm:
Spoken like a fukking American. Obviously not enough is being done about murder in your country. No further explanation required on that fact.


You tout justice systems in the world where objectively less is done to murderers.
  

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Re: Racism is a Big Problem in the US.
Reply #56 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 1:43pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 2:59pm:
You tout justice systems in the world where objectively less is done to murderers.


Yes I do! If what you are suggesting is that the US takes the wrong approach toward convicted murderers or just convicted criminals in general.

We've been over Norway's system thoroughly and I don't recall you showing must interest at all. Is that because the very idea of what they are doing is repugnant to you?

If that's the case then there's no use continuing to talk to you.

On another thread you started to demonstrate more of an understanding on discrimination than any other socalled libertarian has ever done on this forum. That was encouraging. But if some sort of reasonableness isn't shown on this issue then it was just a temporary slip up on your part.

We can talk about it there. The main point I tried to get across to you is that racists/bigots/christians/whatever are usually intent on getting satisfaction out of making it known they are such. That's their biggest joy. They aren't intent on maintaining any legitimate principle nearly as much as seeing the hurt in those they offend, and getting satisfaction from it.

US politics has driven the people to that point of confrontation in everything. I would suggest that racists must be racists if they want to be consistent with the political right's priorities.

Can I say that to a libertarian whose claim is to be neither rightist or leftist?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Racism is a Big Problem in the US.
Reply #57 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 3:08pm
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Don_G wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 1:43pm:
Yes I do! If what you are suggesting is that the US takes the wrong approach toward convicted murderers or just convicted criminals in general.

We've been over Norway's system thoroughly and I don't recall you showing must interest at all. Is that because the very idea of what they are doing is repugnant to you?


Obviously Norway is not wrong, since they get better results. You don't want to hear what I think about why this is so I'll just shut up.

Don_G wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 1:43pm:
On another thread you started to demonstrate more of an understanding on discrimination than any other socalled libertarian has ever done on this forum. That was encouraging. But if some sort of reasonableness isn't shown on this issue then it was just a temporary slip up on your part.


I have to take on everyone because no one on this entire forum, including you, holds consistent views about right and wrong. The views change depending on what advantages and disadvantages you at any given time.

The people besides me aren't even talking to each other; you're talking at each other. They ignore your philosophy on morality just like you ignore theirs. They didn't even grasp that you're claiming an injustice, which potentially justifies Affirmative Action as a remedy to that injustice. You do worse at times.

Don_G wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 1:43pm:
We can talk about it there. The main point I tried to get across to you is that racists/bigots/christians/whatever are usually intent on getting satisfaction out of making it known they are such. That's their biggest joy. They aren't intent on maintaining any legitimate principle nearly as much as seeing the hurt in those they offend, and getting satisfaction from it.


Correct, and outlawing the positive action you just described is not inconsistent with the libertarian theory of rights. It also allows anyone to refuse service to anyone else at any time, as long as they don't say, "Get out of my store, chrome dome." (Obviously we shouldn't protect the bald, no more than supergeniuses or turtleneck-wearers because only minorities need the protection. It's not beyond reason to expect everyone else to suck it up.)

The question that remains is that in light of the fact that this is already law, what more do you want done since there's still a bloody problem?!

You can't just say people have to change, because it's not falsifiable. What would need to happen that would make you say they had changed? What is necessary for there to not be a problem anymore?

People voted for Trump because they thought it was allowed. They, like the illegal immigrant, the welfare queen, and the recipient of State privilege (such as the crony capitalist), were taught by example that when voting, it's alright to vote for what will advantage yourself and hurt others. If you want them not to do this, you have to explain to them why everyone else, and not these ones, may vote selfishly to advantage their group, and if you want people to follow this principle it must be law, just like if you want people not to murder it must be law.

So what law do you want?

Don_G wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 1:43pm:
US politics has driven the people to that point of confrontation in everything. I would suggest that racists must be racists if they want to be consistent with the political right's priorities.

Can I say that to a libertarian whose claim is to be neither rightist or leftist?


Libertarianism is a hard-left philosophy. Tom Palven probably understands this. He's the only libertarian poster on the site.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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