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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anarchy Vs Theft by Government (Read 374 times)
kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #20 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:41am
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 6:58pm:
I think the point both you and the Jeff miss is that there is no natural right to own land


You're just making shit up again.  I never discussed if it's a "natural right" or not and you never asked.  You just made up my position.  Again.
  

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kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #21 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:44am
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 6:58pm:
The same is true for police, courts, national defense, etc.  Those are services that must be provided by government.  I'm fine with fees for those services so long as paying the fees and availing oneself of those services is voluntary


And that's more ridiculous crap.  Those are things you don't need until you need them.  The money must be paid up front.  Not when you decide to use them.  They are there to protect everyone all the time.

And you've provided no solution to roads other than prattling about old and new roads as if all roads don't need to be maintained.

You just throw out random talking points.  You have no actual alternative solution you've actually proposed to replace mandatory taxes other than living in a shopping cart.  And you can avoid taxes that way now
  

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Jeff
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #22 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 1:32pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 10:39pm:
I only state correctly that ownership of land requires government. 
Nonsense.

If government disappears by magic, I will still own my land and I will still have my deed, even if the records in the courthouse disappear too, even if I lose my deed.

The only difference will be that I, along with everybody else, will have to fight off claim jumpers on our own.

Why not imagine that, since state governments require most motor vehicles to be registered, that you can't own a car without government?


  
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kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #23 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 1:48pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 1:32pm:
Nonsense.

If government disappears by magic, I will still own my land and I will still have my deed, even if the records in the courthouse disappear too, even if I lose my deed.

The only difference will be that I, along with everybody else, will have to fight off claim jumpers on our own.

Why not imagine that, since state governments require most motor vehicles to be registered, that you can't own a car without government?




You wouldn't have roads to drive anywhere.  And if you want to sit in a tower all day driving off anyone who wants to encroach on your land, you just go ahead and do it
  

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Jeff
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #24 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:33pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
You wouldn't have roads to drive anywhere.  And if you want to sit in a tower all day driving off anyone who wants to encroach on your land, you just go ahead and do it
I didn't imagine that the roads would all disappear, just government, and I was imagining that because I think Red's assertion that land can't be owned without government is ridiculous nonsense.

I don't want to have to defend my land against claim jumpers or fraud, I want the government to help protect my property, all of my property.

My point was/is that I would still own my land and my house and my lawnmower and the natural gas under my land even if government disappeared.

Edit: Really, you never heard of private roads?
  
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kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #25 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:49pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:33pm:
Really, you never heard of private roads?


Yes.  Apparently you can drive through the Maine outback on one.  That's the only place you've come up with that you can go on a private road
  

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kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #26 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:33pm:
I didn't imagine that the roads would all disappear


The roads themselves?  No, but they would quickly become unpassable and people would start putting up toll booths by all of their houses.  It would be unfeasible.  Did you mean the first day after government disappears?

I like how your ODD makes you argue you're everything from an anarchist to a socialist
  

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SnarkySack
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #27 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:55pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 1:32pm:
Nonsense.

If government disappears by magic, I will still own my land and I will still have my deed, even if the records in the courthouse disappear too, even if I lose my deed.

The only difference will be that I, along with everybody else, will have to fight off claim jumpers on our own.

Why not imagine that, since state governments require most motor vehicles to be registered, that you can't own a car without government?




You never owned it in the first place without government.  Your "I got here first" idea is a fantasy.  When ungoverned tribal people roamed the earth, they may have stopped and built shelters or moved into caves.  But when game and forage ran out, they moved elsewhere without thinking that no one else could use it when they were gone.

It was government that first established territory that it controlled and later granted tracts of that territory to individuals which became the first private property.

That was a great idea, because people worked much harder on land they owned than they did when they were serfs. 

Sure, you could try to hang onto your land without government, but that would depend entirely on how much force you could muster to protect it.

  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Jeff
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #28 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:57pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Yes.  Apparently you can drive through the Maine outback on one.  That's the only place you've come up with that you can go on a private road

I make no claim that this list is inclusive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_highways_in_the_United_States

The Golden Road is just one I knew of and had used.

Had governments not gotten into road building, people would have built more private roads where they needed them.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #29 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:57pm
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burnsred wrote yesterday at 6:58pm:
Quote:
I think the point both you and the Jeff miss is that there is no natural right to own land


kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:41am:
You're just making shit up again.  I never discussed if it's a "natural right" or not and you never asked.  You just made up my position.  Again.


Well, no you didn't discuss it.  That's why I said you missed that point.

  

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