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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anarchy Vs Theft by Government (Read 489 times)
SnarkySack
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #30 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:59pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 7:15pm:
Are you also rejecting ownership rights in minerals and such beneath the land? So that when people started pumping oil out from under their land, it wasn't their oil? Or when they dug coal out of their land and sold it, it wasn't their coal?


Sure it was theirs.  If they pumped oil or dug coal from unclaimed land (if there is any around) they would own that oil and coal.   It's a work product and people have a natural right to own it.  Just like if they fished fish from a lake that nobody owns.

  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Jeff
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #31 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:01pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:55pm:
You never owned it in the first place without government.  Your "I got here first" idea is a fantasy.  When ungoverned tribal people roamed the earth, they may have stopped and built shelters or moved into caves.
Then they built villages and towns. When people gathered into large enough communities and those communities became more permanent, they started creating governments. One of the reasons they created governments was to more easily secure their property rights.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #32 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:05pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:59pm:
Sure it was theirs.  If they pumped oil or dug coal from unclaimed land (if there is any around) they would own that oil and coal.   It's a work product and people have a natural right to own it.  Just like if they fished fish from a lake that nobody owns.

So you recognize my property rights to what is on my land (my buildings and trees and crops) and beneath my land (water and minerals), and even my right to sell part of my land (topsoil), but maintain that the "land itself" is sort of on loan from the government.

It's just nonsense.

BTW, lakes that nobody owns are claimed by the government, which also claims to own the fish in them.
  
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kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #33 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:06pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 2:57pm:
burnsred wrote yesterday at 6:58pm:


Well, no you didn't discuss it.  That's why I said you missed that point.



Now there's some Jeff style word parsing
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #34 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:08pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
Now there's some Jeff style word parsing
If he said something that you didn't reply to, it's possible you did miss that point, or maybe you ignored it.
  
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kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #35 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:38pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
Now there's some Jeff style word parsing


LOL, showing again that you're disagreeing me without even having any idea what we're discussing.  That darned ODD ...
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #36 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:42pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
LOL, showing again that you're disagreeing me without even having any idea what we're discussing.  That darned ODD ...
There's a lot of ODD people on this forum if you ask me!
  
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kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #37 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:49pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
There's a lot of ODD people on this forum if you ask me!


I can't argue that
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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BobK71
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #38 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 4:18pm
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A libertarian system is where government only protects life and property rights and enforces contracts.

These are moral codes that are in universal agreement -- the kind of rules we have the least to fear from officials abusing their power or lacking the motivation to do their job.

The fundamental problem of the world system today is that, even in the best countries, while governments pretend to promote free markets, their taking on the management of money has fundamentally distorted economies, robbed people, and created the incentives for the elites to take us further down the road to serfdom.  Money should be a totally free market.

There is a role for government to provide support for the universally agreed values.  If I shoot someone in the street and claim he was trying to rob me, how are we going to determine if I'm not actually the guilty one?  There has to be a publicly supported institution to decide such things.

We have to understand precisely how the system is rigged, in order to un-rig it.
  
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kaz
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Re: Anarchy Vs Theft by Government
Reply #39 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 4:24pm
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BobK71 wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 4:18pm:
A libertarian system is where government only protects life and property rights and enforces contracts


Life, liberty and property, yeah

BobK71 wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 4:18pm:
If I shoot someone in the street and claim he was trying to rob me, how are we going to determine if I'm not actually the guilty one?  There has to be a publicly supported institution to decide such things


Well, in our system, you are entitled to due process and the government cannot convict you, a jury of your peers must do that.  As flawed as that may be, I haven't heard a better idea
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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