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The Opposition
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Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Feb 3rd, 2018 at 11:21pm
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I've been asked to explain why I prefer (selfishly, mind you, not morally) government to no government.

So Tomline (I simply selected the newest regular poster) is now the boss of me.

As far as this forum goes, anyway.

While I'm on this forum, Tomline decides what rights I have and what rights I don't have. He decides what I can say and what I cannot say.

If he says I can't do or say something on this forum, then I can't. For the purposes of this experiment he will represent authoritarian government.

I have not PM'd him. I have not spoken to him about this.

We'll see how this experiment goes.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #1 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 12:33pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 11:21pm:
I've been asked to explain why I prefer (selfishly, mind you, not morally) government to no government.

So Tomline (I simply selected the newest regular poster) is now the boss of me.

As far as this forum goes, anyway.

While I'm on this forum, Tomline decides what rights I have and what rights I don't have. He decides what I can say and what I cannot say.

If he says I can't do or say something on this forum, then I can't. For the purposes of this experiment he will represent authoritarian government.

I have not PM'd him. I have not spoken to him about this.

We'll see how this experiment goes.

I like your idea.  Can Tomline also tell you what to post along with what not to post?

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Don_G
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #2 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 12:48pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 12:33pm:
I like your idea.  Can Tomline also tell you what to post along with what not to post?



Oppo makes mockery of the thread before it even starts to examine his cause. He's pretending to ask a question on government for 'selfish' reasons.

But then really, hasn't libertarianism been mocked in all it's incarnations already? And questioning of it's principles aren't defended through to any conclusions.

This one based on selfishness is no different.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #3 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 3:01pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 11:21pm:
While I'm on this forum, Tomline decides what rights I have and what rights I don't have. He decides what I can say and what I cannot say.

We'll see how this experiment goes.

You shouldn't ever allow an individual or a government to define your rights.

You were born with inalienable rights - nobody grants them to you. 

The government doesn't grant us the right to free speech. The 1st Amendment only acknowledges this right.

The premise of this experiment is flawed, imo.
  
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kaz
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #4 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 3:03pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
You shouldn't ever allow an individual or a government to define your rights.

You were born with inalienable rights - nobody grants them to you. 

The government doesn't grant us the right to free speech. It only acknowledges this right.

The premise of this experiment is flawed, imo.


He voluntarily cedes his rights.  Obviously that is revocable at any time of his choosing.  I don't get what's unlibertarian about that.

It's not like he's aiming guns at people and forcing them to bake cakes for each other
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #5 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 3:14pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 3:03pm:
He voluntarily cedes his rights.  Obviously that is revocable at any time of his choosing.  I don't get what's unlibertarian about that.

It's not like he's aiming guns at people and forcing them to bake cakes for each other

I don't see the point of this experiment.  What cause-and-effect insight does Oppo hope to gain from being subservient to tomline?
  
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kaz
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #6 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 3:46pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 3:14pm:
I don't see the point of this experiment.  What cause-and-effect insight does Oppo hope to gain from being subservient to tomline?


I agree with that.  I'm just pointing out that no one can tell someone what to do with their own rights even if you don't agree with their choice
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #7 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 5:58pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 12:33pm:
I like your idea.  Can Tomline also tell you what to post along with what not to post?


I was going under the assumption that rights are negative. But let's go all-out. Yes he can, provided it doesn't violate the rules of the forum.

SkyChief wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
You shouldn't ever allow an individual or a government to define your rights.

You were born with inalienable rights - nobody grants them to you. 

The government doesn't grant us the right to free speech. The 1st Amendment only acknowledges this right.


I understand that you see it this way. I'm attempting to prove otherwise.

Quote:
Oppo makes mockery of the thread before it even starts to examine his cause. He's pretending to ask a question on government for 'selfish' reasons.

But then really, hasn't libertarianism been mocked in all it's incarnations already? And questioning of it's principles aren't defended through to any conclusions.

This one based on selfishness is no different.


I'm not mocking anything. I sincerely believe that libertarianism is right.

Why someone would prefer tyranny does not equal why tyranny is right.

Jeff constantly, falsely equates it to wanting to dominate others when I say I prefer tyranny. I am attempting to show that it's possible, and even logical, for someone to prefer being under an authority to being under none.

Perhaps after this experiment runs its course, people will no longer look at Tivolians with such preconceived disdain.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #8 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 8:29pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 5:58pm:
I was going under the assumption that rights are negative


Bull crap.  The right to run to government and have them go to someone and force them at the point of a gun to bake you a cake is a positive right
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Libertarian's Forum, Libertarian Experiment
Reply #9 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 8:30pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 4th, 2018 at 5:58pm:
Why someone would prefer tyranny does not equal why tyranny is right


Another lie.  You claimed repeatedly that the right to have government force someone at gunpoint to bake you a cake is the right thing to do
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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