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kaz
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #10 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 2:16pm
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You've promoted an attitude in others that nobody is going to take you seriously


Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

From you?  That's classic
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #11 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 6:08am
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by Pat Buchanan
https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2018/02/05/nunes-duels-deep-state/

For a discussion on how libertarians think this is all going to end up destroying. No kneejerk reactions without reading first please.
I read it on another forum. It seems pretty clear that the FBI, or at least parts of it, have been operating as a political rather than a law enforcement agency. I think the same thing can be said for a lot of the Departments and Agencies in the Executive branch.

To the extent that such actions are being taken, they have already destroyed our republican form of representative government... But so does having bureaucrats make laws. So does giving  Executive orders the force of law. So do "omnibus" bills in Congress. So does allowing judges to make law. So has removing Sovereignty from the people and assigning it to the government so that Citizens are said to have no standing in court to complain of Constitutional violations by our own government. etc.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #12 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 8:10am
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For what ever its worth.....
This should reveal the problems with the FISA court generally but because Nunes, Trump, et al are painting it as  a partisan issue it will go no where productive.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #13 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 8:46am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 6:08am:
I read it on another forum. It seems pretty clear that the FBI, or at least parts of it, have been operating as a political rather than a law enforcement agency. I think the same thing can be said for a lot of the Departments and Agencies in the Executive branch.


This Trump investigation is unbelievably political.  No one has yet articulated what crime it would be even if there were proof that Trump worked with the Russians to get help in winning the election.  The Democrats have always "colluded" with other nations to win elections, including Clinton working with the Ukrainians in 2016.

 

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To the extent that such actions are being taken, they have already destroyed our republican form of representative government... But so does having bureaucrats make laws. So does givingĀ  Executive orders the force of law. So do "omnibus" bills in Congress. So does allowing judges to make law. So has removing Sovereignty from the people and assigning it to the government so that Citizens are said to have no standing in court to complain of Constitutional violations by our own government. etc.


It's easier to say what parts of the constitution are still in effect than to list all the parts that have been nullified over the years.

As far as I can see, the constitution is now used as a set of procedural rules for elections.  But even at that, it wasn't honored in 2000.  There is a very clear constitutional procedure for settling elections that doesn't involve the judicial branch at all.  Unfortunately due to the vagueness of the equal protection clause, it can be used by activist judges to claim power to do anything they want in the name of ensuring equality.
  

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Don_G
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #14 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 12:38pm
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ahhell wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 8:10am:
For what ever its worth.....
This should reveal the problems with the FISA court generally but because Nunes, Trump, et al are painting it asĀ  a partisan issue it will go no where productive.


Yes. The problem being addressed has little to do with the problems of the FISA court and so won't address that.

It has everything to do with discrediting the FBI in order to stop the Mueller investigation.

The two sides are working hard now. The Republicans trying to promote their memo befor the Dem memo comes out.

And the Dems working hard to paint a picture of Rosenstein being fired first to get at Mueller.

If it's a dead heat now, it won't be when the time comes for Trump to release the Dems' memo. Or not release it!

It's tough to say what would be the best move for Trump?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #15 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 1:27pm
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It has everything to do with discrediting the FBI...
The FBI has discredited itself by acting politically. So has the DOJ.
I believe it's a problem of leadership.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #16 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 1:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 1:27pm:
The FBI has discredited itself by acting politically. So has the DOJ.
I believe it's a problem of leadership.


The FBI may have discredited itself to some extent but I think it's mostly to do with a Trump attempt to discredit them for the obvious reason.

Something we may be able to agree on is that it's now going to be a battle for the hearts and minds of the American people. And that's politics and all that ever was important anyway.

In all honesty, I'm not able to make a good guess on which side is going to win. But I very strongly suspect that taking on the FBI, CIA, and the deep state is not a good game to play. He shouldn't have fired Comey and if you've been doing your reading you'll know that the R's have said that too.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #17 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 2:08pm
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The FBI may have discredited itself to some extent but I think it's mostly to do with a Trump attempt to discredit them for the obvious reason.
The FBI leadership discredited the entire organization by acting politically.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #18 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 7:03pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 7th, 2018 at 2:08pm:
The FBI leadership discredited the entire organization by acting politically.


The majority of the people will decide but they won't be able to make that decision until the Dem memo is out. Trump has to stop it but he will do so at the risk of more obstruction of justice.

Neither of our wishes matter and there's no value in spin on this forum. The six people have already been spun.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Nunes Duels the Deep State
Reply #19 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 7:32pm
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The majority of the people will decide but they won't be able to make that decision until the Dem memo is out.
They are busy trying to create new evidence after their attempts to destroy the existing evidence failed? Will they back date this memo they are bringing out and claim they just found it?
  
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