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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Beings Without Rights (Read 732 times)
The Opposition
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Beings Without Rights
Feb 9th, 2018 at 4:04pm
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Do sentient beings without rights have an obligation to respect the rights of those who do have them?

https://mises.org/library/rights-animals
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What of the "Martian" problem? If we should ever discover and make contact with beings from other planets, could they be said to have the rights of human beings? It would depend on their nature. If our hypothetical "Martians" were like human beings — conscious, rational, able to communicate with us and participate in the division of labor — then presumably they too would possess the rights now confined to "earthbound" humans.

But suppose, on the other hand, that the Martians also had the characteristics, the nature, of the legendary vampire, and could only exist by feeding on human blood. In that case, regardless of their intelligence, the Martians would be our deadly enemy and we could not consider that they were entitled to the rights of humanity. Deadly enemy, again, not because they were wicked aggressors, but because of the needs and requirements of their nature, which would clash ineluctably with ours.

There is, in fact, rough justice in the common quip that "we will recognize the rights of animals whenever they petition for them." The fact that animals can obviously not petition for their "rights" is part of their nature, and part of the reason why they are clearly not equivalent to, and do not possess the rights of, human beings.


merkelstan wrote on Feb 28th, 2017 at 11:15pm:
Rothbard's criteria makes more sense, because not only does the entity have to demonstrate conscious thought, it needs to understand the concept of rights and demand them for itself.

Amusingly, The Opposition would fail that test.  I still can't get-over what a mental trainwreck his (her?) "concept" of rights was.


It seems that libertarian ethics easily recognise that there at least could be (and in fact are) sentient beings without rights.

I don't have rights, and neither do vampires. (For different reasons.) Nonreligious people have less rights. (See below.)

Billie wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 7:52am:
Slaughtering animals for food according to religious prescripts is not animal abuse.
Slaughtering animals in the same way for fun would be.

Too subtle for you?


So here's my question:

Does the vampire have an obligation not to drain a human of blood? Obviously you're going to stake him anyway, but the question is one of morality. Can we ever say that he has done wrong and is therefore being punished? Since humans have rights, and he does not, does he have any obligation to request blood on a voluntary basis and pay people enough to give it to him? Is the vampire that actually does this less wrong than one who does not and simply drains the blood?
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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thermf5
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #1 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 4:10pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 4:04pm:
Do sentient beings without rights have an obligation to respect the rights of those who do have them?

https://mises.org/library/rights-animals


It seems that libertarian ethics easily recognise that there at least could be (and in fact are) sentient beings without rights.

I don't have rights, and neither do vampires. (For different reasons.) Nonreligious people have less rights. (See below.)


So here's my question:

Does the vampire have an obligation not to drain a human of blood? Obviously you're going to stake him anyway, but the question is one of morality. Can we ever say that he has done wrong and is therefore being punished? Since humans have rights, and he does not, does he have any obligation to request blood on a voluntary basis and pay people enough to give it to him? Is the vampire that actually does this less wrong than one who does not and simply drains the blood?

if a ai is sentient dose it dese deser right i say yes sentientice is baced on free will and free thinking so of cource that deserve rights
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #2 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:46pm
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My question is: When you're sentient but don't have rights, do you still have an obligation to respect the rights of others?
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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thermf5
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #3 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 1:16am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:46pm:
My question is: When you're sentient but don't have rights, do you still have an obligation to respect the rights of others?

u have on incentive if u are a secon call citzen there is no resion to restion the rights of other in a futilist sosidty i expect the pesient to kill the nobals the olny rights that are ligetiment are equally distributed
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #4 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 2:20am
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thermf5 wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 1:16am:
You have no incentive


Right, but do I have a moral obligation?

I know there's no incentive. As I said, they're going to stake the vampire anyway. Vampires don't have rights.

But is the vampire who doesn't kill (even if the most extreme version of the bloodthirst lore is true and this will kill him) better in any way than the one that does kill?
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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thermf5
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #5 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 8:48am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 2:20am:
Right, but do I have a moral obligation?

I know there's no incentive. As I said, they're going to stake the vampire anyway. Vampires don't have rights.

But is the vampire who doesn't kill (even if the most extreme version of the bloodthirst lore is true and this will kill him) better in any way than the one that does kill?

on a moral lv i can not say cuz i am a beliver in moral relativism but is it moral to me no to just kill some for just exzisting is wroung to kill someone by there actions is gray and should be looking at case by case
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #6 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 2:17am
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Still no answer on this. It's a very easy question.

Do beings without rights have any obligation to respect the rights of those who do have them?

Surely someone can answer this.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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thermf5
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #7 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 2:37am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 20th, 2018 at 2:17am:
Still no answer on this. It's a very easy question.

Do beings without rights have any obligation to respect the rights of those who do have them?

Surely someone can answer this.

I all ready ancered no and that the surff should kill the nobily
  
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Billie
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #8 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 9:47am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 4:04pm:
Does the vampire have an obligation not to drain a human of blood?
What makes you think vampires would respect human rights?

Humans have a right to defend themselves against other humans who don't respect their rights. Other sentient beings would have the same rights and humans certainly have a right of self defense against Vampires or whatever.

Take "Vampires" out of your question and substitute Voltarians (sentient beings who recognize the rights of other sentient beings) and the answer seems simple to me, yes, other sentient beings have rights so long as they respect our rights.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Beings Without Rights
Reply #9 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 1:31pm
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Billie wrote on Feb 20th, 2018 at 9:47am:
What makes you think vampires would respect human rights?

Humans have a right to defend themselves against other humans who don't respect their rights. Other sentient beings would have the same rights and humans certainly have a right of self defense against Vampires or whatever.

Take "Vampires" out of your question and substitute Voltarians (sentient beings who recognize the rights of other sentient beings) and the answer seems simple to me, yes, other sentient beings have rights so long as they respect our rights.


Vampires! A great discussion for you wingnuts that will keep you off the streets where normal people are trying to go about normal business.
  
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