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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that (Read 623 times)
Snarky Sack
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #30 - Feb 12th, 2018 at 8:56am
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 3:42am:
I did some some cursory fact checking -  As I expected, this is BS.  Poverty actually went UP under Obama.

"The most recent official count from the Census Bureau put the number of Americans in poverty at 45.3 million as of 2013 (the most recent year for which the census has measured poverty). That's not quite 5.5 million more people in poverty than there were in 2008, just before Obama took office. So there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 million more people in poverty now than there were before Obama took office."

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/17/432578282/fact-check-is-i...

"The lesson liberals need to learn is that despite their arrogance, they do not have the power to alter reality." - Walter E. Williams


Under Obama the number of people on welfare and foodstamps skyrocketed.  The statists celebrated that as a "success."  Go figure.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #31 - Feb 12th, 2018 at 11:48am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 8:56am:
Under Obama the number of people on welfare and foodstamps skyrocketed.  The statists celebrated that as a "success."  Go figure.

Right.  And its a dead-end road for those who are corralled into poverty/welfare.  There is little hope for escape.  The tragic part is the children who grow up dependent on government hand-outs.   They think this is the norm, and are likely to be reliant on public assistance for the remainder of their lives.  There is so little hope for these people because the motivation to lift themselves out of poverty has been stripped away by the gov't.

Sad.
  
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kaz
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #32 - Feb 12th, 2018 at 12:08pm
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You've already been told.

Poverty was decreased under Obama and has already risen under Trump. Most are predicting more rise in poverty under Trump. Even Republicans!

You need to bury your money in your potatoe patch next to your guns. The government is still coming at midnight to take it all away.

http://www.dw.com/en/poverty-in-us-set-to-increase-due-to-donald-trumps-policies...


Once again you prove that you don't read your own links.  That article says nothing about poverty about Obama and it's only a claim by an international leftist who predicts that poverty will rise under Obama
  

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Jeff
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #33 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 8:57am
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If it collapses then it will be because it stopped being funded.

Demographics Donat dear, that's what will collapse it.

It's a Ponzi scheme and there aren't enough people working to keep funding it, and pretty soon there won't be enough people to fund it even if all of them are working, unless you take so much of the fruits of their labor that they can't save/invest at all for their own retirement.

It's a trap designed by rich "socialist" pigs like Bernie who want to destroy America.
« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2018 at 12:23pm by Jeff »  
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ahhell
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #34 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 9:36am
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By Bernie's standards it is a success, it has helped to keep old folks out of poverty, its also going to bankrupt the US but Bernie thinks that can be fixed by taxing rich people.

And yes it is a ponzi scheme, progressives who are honest enough to admit that will then just say, its not a ponzi scheme because the government can just raise taxes where operators of a ponzi scheme can't just raise the fees.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #35 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 12:40pm
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ahhell wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 9:36am:
By Bernie's standards it is a success, it has helped to keep old folks out of poverty...
Some of them anyway, but many of the old folks who earned lots of money and paid in the maximum early each year also invested and saved and don't need it at all.

Even so, they get a monthly check, and it's bigger than the small check the really poor people get, the ones who couldn't afford to save and invest at all.

No, I don't want to 'fix' S.S. by means testing it, but the program just keeps having ever more bad effects. It keeps taxing working people more and more to pay for ever more retirees, with the result that people earning ever higher wages and salaries today can't afford to save and invest, ensuring that even more people of the current generation will be poor when they are old.


  
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Don_G
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #36 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 12:54pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Some of them anyway, but many of the old folks who earned lots of money and paid in the maximum early each year also invested and saved and don't need it at all.

Even so, they get a monthly check, and it's bigger than the small check the really poor people get, the ones who couldn't afford to save and invest at all.

No, I don't want to 'fix' S.S. by means testing it, but the program just keeps having ever more bad effects. It keeps taxing working people more and more to pay for ever more retirees, with the result that people earning ever higher wages and salaries today can't afford to save and invest, ensuring that even more people of the current generation will be poor when they are old.




You accurately lay out the issues but then eliminate a 'means test' that would be the only way of addressing the problems.

The only other way of dealing with the problem that anyone could ever imagine would be stopping it completely, and that can never happen.

Big problem that should be mentioned in the thread about the LP coming to power. An issue that disqualifies it already. Not to mention dozens of other disagreements within the ranks.

This forum needs to talk about it and get it out in the open. Pretending isnt' going to elevate the LP to power.  Roll Eyes
  
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Jeff
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #37 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 1:19pm
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You accurately lay out the issues but then eliminate a 'means test' that would be the only way of addressing the problems.

The only other way of dealing with the problem that anyone could ever imagine would be stopping it completely, and that can never happen.


We could do something like Chile did. In fact we must.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/chiles-social-security-lesson-us

The original S.S. in the U.S. was for widows with no means and orphans...

We could go back to that and let Congress start expanding it again... but that doesn't solve the basic problem, which is Congress thinking they have a power to give tax revenue to whoever they think 'needs' it.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #38 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 1:27pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 1:19pm:
We could do something like Chile did. In fact we must.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/chiles-social-security-lesson-us

The original S.S. in the U.S. was for widows with no means and orphans...

We could go back to that and let Congress start expanding it again... but that doesn't solve the basic problem, which is Congress thinking they have a power to give tax revenue to whoever they think 'needs' it.


A quick read of that link seems to suggest that allowing people to opt out was the answer.

That's not an answer. The reasons are many but to begin with, if a person opted out and then fell into hard times the state would still be responsible for keeping him alive and not starving to death. Or dying for want of medical, whatever.

Social responsibility is ever present even in the worst systems in the world, and expressly in the US to some extent.

As I said,there are only two possibilities. I think that means testing is the only one that could ever work. The pig said you got banned for a few days. Did you?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Bernie Sanders says social security is a very successful program that
Reply #39 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 1:37pm
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A quick read of that link seems to suggest that allowing people to opt out was the answer.
Yes, almost all Chileans did opt out and it had good effects. Broad good effects.
  
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