Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Death penalty
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Death penalty (Read 578 times)
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1922
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: Death penalty
Reply #30 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 5:58pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 5:24pm:
So the limited evidence says you are wrong. I knew that.
Cute. 

Also that evidence isn't very good.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 30208
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Death penalty
Reply #31 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 6:03pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 5:58pm:
Cute. 

Also that evidence isn't very good.
Me? Cute?

You now say the limited evidence that contradicts your position isn't very good...

That's impressive! Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sicklers Dink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10544
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Death penalty
Reply #32 - Feb 24th, 2018 at 2:05pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 5:58pm:
Cute. 

Also that evidence isn't very good.


That's an approach that is most successful with Jeff.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 5533
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Death penalty
Reply #33 - Feb 24th, 2018 at 2:35pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 5:58pm:
Cute. 

Also that evidence isn't very good.


There's no doubt that you're right that the death penalty is not a deterrent.  It's just far to infrequently and randomly applied.

To be a deterrent, it would have to be widely and consistently applied.  That's not going to happen.  The country would have to be united behind the death penalty for that to work, and it's not
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sicklers Dink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10544
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Death penalty
Reply #34 - Feb 24th, 2018 at 3:05pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
There's no doubt that you're right that the death penalty is not a deterrent.  It's just far to infrequently and randomly applied.

To be a deterrent, it would have to be widely and consistently applied.  That's not going to happen.  The country would have to be united behind the death penalty for that to work, and it's not


The country doesn't have to be united behind the death penalty. I'm answering for ahhell because I'm pretty confident i'm getting his feelings right on this issue.

Trump is causing havoc throughout your country by bringing about horrible changes that the majority of the country oppose. His manner and his disposition is almost certainly pro-death penalty and so no de-escalation will take place. That leaves room for more escalation and more capitol punishment.

Any rightist who opposes capitol punishment is going to be in opposition to the rabid right that is now in control.

The rest of the modern first world sees the US as uncivilized because of it's extreme right view to maintaining it's practice of capitol punishment. It's no secret pig.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6235
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Death penalty
Reply #35 - Feb 24th, 2018 at 3:47pm
Print Post  
Sicklers Dink wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 1:06pm:
Kneejerk on your part Chief. He's asking that the decision on whether or not to kill a murderer be made on emotions.

Of course emotions should have nothing to do with the decision.

I agree with those of you who assert that capital punishment is not a deterrent.  It's a punishment.

See, that's why it's called capital PUNISHMENT.    Wink

IMO, there are some crimes that are so horrendous, the ultimate punishment should be paid.  Mass murder of children is one of these crimes. 

But due process should never be circumvented.  Ever.   

The only ones who should be able to waive the death penalty are the victims' families. (IMO)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sicklers Dink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10544
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Death penalty
Reply #36 - Feb 24th, 2018 at 4:17pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 3:47pm:
I agree with those of you who assert that capital punishment is not a deterrent.  It's a punishment.

See, that's why it's called capital PUNISHMENT.    Wink

IMO, there are some crimes that are so horrendous, the ultimate punishment should be paid.  Mass murder of children is one of these crimes. 

But due process should never be circumvented.  Ever.   

The only ones who should be able to waive the death penalty are the victims' families. (IMO)


You're wrong even with your example of mass murder of children Chief. And if you're wrong with that kneejerk sort of extreme then you're wrong on the rest.

Two reasons why you are wrong, or at least are wrong some of the time on this example:

1. Capital punishment shouldn't be consider in cases of mental illness. This is already well established and to reconsider would be going backward and further from social responsibility.

2. Capital punishment only applies to the poor, the middle class, or black people. It doesn't apply to people like OJ who can afford a reliable defense which can almost always defeat the system.

Revenge is not a solution to the problem. It's avoidance of facing the responsibility of government to deal with the problem, which can and should result in less murders.

You don't want to have to consider the wisdom in Norway's system and that can only be because you aren't truly and honestly interested in making things better.

Burnsred showed an example of how he could feign interest. And if you followed that discussion you will have seen how it was really only feigning when he got himself cornered into supporting it.

A real libertarian must be truly interested in making the situation better. Nobody on this forum except me is are trying to do that.

Take that as a challenge.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6235
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Death penalty
Reply #37 - Feb 24th, 2018 at 5:19pm
Print Post  
Sicklers Dink wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 4:17pm:
1. Capital punishment shouldn't be consider in cases of mental illness. This is already well established and to reconsider would be going backward and further from social responsibility.

We can't allow mental patients to commit mass murder. That sets a dangerous precedent.  They must be held accountable just as you or I would be had we committed this crime.   

Sicklers Dink wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 4:17pm:
2. Capital punishment only applies to the poor, the middle class, or black people. It doesn't apply to people like OJ who can afford a reliable defense which can almost always defeat the system.

True, the rich are held to different standards than us common folk.  That's why Hillary isn't wearing an orange jumpsuit wth 'DOC' printed on the back right now.  Smiley

Sicklers Dink wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 4:17pm:
You don't want to have to consider the wisdom in Norway's system and that can only be because you aren't truly and honestly interested in making things better.

I read that Norway coddles their criminals.  That's fine. 

In the Land of the Gun, we don't have that luxury. We must be resolute when dealing with criminals who use guns to murder our children.

"I don't like repeat offenders. I like dead offenders." - Ted Nugent
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 30208
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Death penalty
Reply #38 - Feb 24th, 2018 at 5:26pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 3:47pm:
I agree with those of you who assert that capital punishment is not a deterrent.
I don't. if you will surely be hung for capital offenses, many people will be deterred.

Hang them publicly with their paraphernalia if they have any. Others of their ilk will get the idea.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6235
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Death penalty
Reply #39 - Feb 24th, 2018 at 6:09pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 5:26pm:
I don't. if you will surely be hung for capital offenses, many people will be deterred.

Hang them publicly with their paraphernalia if they have any. Others of their ilk will get the idea.

Hanging is considered inhumane and hasn't been used in the US since 1996.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Death penalty
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy