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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias? (Read 779 times)
Don_G
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #30 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:14pm
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SkyChief wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 10:59am:
Nailed it.   Smiley

It's good that you mentioned "reasonable" restrictions for regulation on machine guns. SCOTUS should have struck down the National Firearms Act [1934] which prohibited certain types of (automatic) weapons for civilian use.  It was in clear violation of the Constitution.

SHALL. NOT. BE. INFRINGED.  Means exactly that. Restrictions/prohibition on certain types of firearms absolutely is an infringement.


Then it's settled. Bring back all kinds of machine guns and allow everybody to carry them openly on the streets. It's the constipation constitution.

Well, at least in libertarian land it's been decided. It's three against zero so far!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #31 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:26pm
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Then it's settled. Bring back all kinds of machine guns and allow everybody to carry them openly on the streets. It's the constipation constitution.


Up until 1934, that was exactly the situation, but almost nobody wanted machine guns and nobody but the drug gang criminals carried them on the streets.

Almost nobody wants machine guns now either, they aren't useful for much of anything, they are expensive, and although they can be fun to shoot, they are also very expensive to shoot and difficult to shoot well.

What you should be worried about are all those AK-47s and their clones, which are machine guns, being in the hands of children in third world countries.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #32 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:45pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:26pm:
Up until 1934, that was exactly the situation, but almost nobody wanted machine guns and nobody but the drug gang criminals carried them on the streets.

Almost nobody wants machine guns now either, they aren't useful for much of anything, they are expensive, and although they can be fun to shoot, they are also very expensive to shoot and difficult to shoot well.

What you should be worried about are all those AK-47s and their clones, which are machine guns, being in the hands of children in third world countries.


If nobody wanted machine guns then we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's valid to say that any weapons that can fire full automatic can be called a machine gun. There's no distinction except sometimes in the gun's magazine's capacity. That limitation is easy to overcome.

I'm afraid you're just wrong about nobody wanting machine guns. Many do and some of them would undoubtedly be school shooters.

I'll talk about other countries with children carrying AK-47's but that's not the topic here.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #33 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:53pm
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If nobody wanted machine guns then we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's valid to say that any weapons that can fire full automatic can be called a machine gun.

I'm afraid you're just wrong about nobody wanting machine guns. Many do and some of them would undoubtedly be school shooters.

I'll talk about other countries with children carrying AK-47's but that's not the topic here.
Yes, that's the definition of a machine gun. One pull of the trigger will activate the firing mechanism and it will continue to fire until the trigger is released or it runs out of ammunition.

Almost nobody wants them. Edit: The Swiss used to have a fully automatic rifle in almost every home... Just sayin'.

Yes, your plan is best, refuse to teach children self control and personal responsibility, drug them with mind altering drugs and pretend that all the crimes they commit as "children" (up until they are 18) never really happened.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #34 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Yes, that's the definition of a machine gun. One pull of the trigger will activate the firing mechanism and it will continue to fire until the trigger is released or it runs out of ammunition.

Almost nobody wants them. Edit: The Swiss used to have a fully automatic rifle in almost every home... Just sayin'.

Yes, your plan is best, refuse to teach children self control and personal responsibility, drug them with mind altering drugs and pretend that all the crimes they commit as "children" (up until they are 18) never really happened.


Then if nobody wants them, nobody should object to outlawing them for public use. Oh, and fwiw, the bumpstocks make a machine gun. It's just one more way but Trump isn't serious about outlawing them.

If you have chosen to be an asshole then I have no interest in talking to you sweet ass.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #35 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 1:10pm
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Then if nobody wants them, nobody should object to outlawing them for public use.
Almost nobody wants them. I'd like to have a few in the local community owned by people who can afford to shoot them enough to learn to use them well. I can't.

You love tyranny of the majority arguments don't you?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #36 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 1:11pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 1:10pm:
Almost nobody wants them. I'd like to have a few in the local community owned by people who can afford to shoot them enough to learn to use them well. I can't.

You love tyranny of the majority arguments don't you?


Phhhhttttttt! Piss off!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #37 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 1:13pm
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Oh, and fwiw, the bumpstocks make a machine gun.
No they don't. They are a method of firing a semi-automatic weapon faster, but they still require one pull of the trigger for each shot.

Training yourself to fire a semi-auto faster is a better option.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #38 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 7:38pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 1:13pm:
No they don't. They are a method of firing a semi-automatic weapon faster, but they still require one pull of the trigger for each shot.

Exactly. 

Trump actually made the same gaffe - claiming that bump stocks convert a semi-auto weapon into a "machine gun". 

"Just a few moments ago, I signed a memorandum directing the Attorney General to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns," - Trump


"A fact to a liberal is like kryptonite is to Superman." - Larry Elder
  
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DontTread44
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Re: Is the Second Amendment really to promote state militias?
Reply #39 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 7:48pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:26pm:
Up until 1934, that was exactly the situation, but almost nobody wanted machine guns and nobody but the drug gang criminals carried them on the streets.

Almost nobody wants machine guns now either, they aren't useful for much of anything, they are expensive, and although they can be fun to shoot, they are also very expensive to shoot and difficult to shoot well.

What you should be worried about are all those AK-47s and their clones, which are machine guns, being in the hands of children in third world countries.


Have any 18th-19th century SCOTUS rulings upheld an individual right to bear arms? Folks like to say this didn't happen until 2007/2010.
  
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