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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population? (Read 1205 times)
Don_G
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:33pm
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And I should have also said burnsred, which side political persuasion wise, wants more immigrants. Seems that it's the Dems and the Repubs oppose it.

But that doesn't figure does it? Aren't the Repubs the party of most of the businessmen who benefit from cheap labour?

So has there been a bait and switch operating in your politics?
Or is the immigration fight all wrapped up in a really big lie? I think the latter.

And I think that the reason it's gone on so long and will likely go on longer, is because of the big lies.

Which reminds me of another case where Trump has lied to please the left and then backtracked to save his ass with the Repubs who are his constituents. 

He has no intention of allowing DACA. But he might be forced into it by the Repubs.
  
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kaz
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #11 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:45pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:33pm:
Not to make you angry, but I have to disagree with the first part.  Being a first world country, we have plenty of educated and skilled workers.   Even if we did have a shortage of the skilled and educated, rising demand - and thus rising wages - would motivate the unskilled and uneducated to seek training and education. 

We need a steady flow of unskilled immigrants because our current unskilled labor pool doesn't want to labor when welfare is available.  Unskilled immigrants are willing to sweat for a living so that their children can be the skilled and educated workers of the next generation.  Our Americans who have been unskilled and uneducated for a generations are the direct result of the policies of the Democratic Party as I believe you are well aware.

EDIT TO ADD:

As to your second point, we could of course end that problem for both immigrants and American dolees by making it far less comfortable to live off the efforts of others.  Privatizing charity again or opening group homes instead of sending out checks would be a step in that direction.





Geez, calm down, calm down.  What are you in such a rage about?  Your mother's going to take you off the computer again if you don't calm down.  Hint, a paper bag could help you regain your breath.

As for that more productive people don't make us richer.  A question.  Why would Bill Gates not be as rich for what he did in an economy of 1 million people?  Any ideas?

Try to hold it together and see if you can answer without screaming and crying.

And that's really fun to you?  I don't get it
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #12 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:47pm
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Quote:
And I should have also said burnsred, which side political persuasion wise, wants more immigrants. Seems that it's the Dems and the Repubs oppose it.

But that doesn't figure does it? Aren't the Repubs the party of most of the businessmen who benefit from cheap labour?


Yes.

Quote:
So has there been a bait and switch operating in your politics?


Yes.

Quote:
Or is the immigration fight all wrapped up in a really big lie?


Yes.

Quote:
And I think that the reason it's gone on so long and will likely go on longer, is because of the big lies.

Which reminds me of another case where Trump has lied to please the left and then backtracked to save his ass with the Repubs who are his constituents. 

He has no intention of allowing DACA. But he might be forced into it by the Repubs.


I think he might be forced into it by the courts and I think he'll be happy if that happens.  DACA gives the Dems the larger Latino population they want and gives the Reps the low-wage labor they want.  Technically, it doesn't give the Dems the Latino voters they want, but they once that population is here legally, the Dems will figure out a way for them to vote.  That's their signature move. 

Chicago is now issuing an ID called "Citykey" intended specifically for illegals who can't present legal documents for a state ID.  Citykey will be accepted as ID to register to vote.  All the illegals have to do is check a box that says, "I am a U.S. citizen."  Not much of a stretch for people who crossed rivers and deserts to be here.  Brilliant!  That was almost entirely done to try to save Rahm Emanual's job as mayor.  Imagine what Dems would do to retake Congress . . .


  

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kaz
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #13 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:56pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:47pm:
DACA gives the Dems the larger Latino population they want and gives the Reps the low-wage labor they want


Try not to get upset and cry again.  But according to Don he wants illegal immigration because of cheap labor.

Also, if "Reps" want immigration for cheap labor, then why is it Reps who want the wall?

You may now proceed to have a melt down followed by a tantrum.  BTW, when you hold your breath, you just pass out eventually and start breathing again.  You can't actually die that way.

Tissue?

I'm trying man, but I still don't get how talking about emotions is fun to you.  I guess you need to deflect from your ridiculous fallacies
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #14 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:56pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:47pm:
Yes.


Yes.


Yes.


I think he might be forced into it by the courts and I think he'll be happy if that happens.  DACA gives the Dems the larger Latino population they want and gives the Reps the low-wage labor they want.  Technically, it doesn't give the Dems the Latino voters they want, but they once that population is here legally, the Dems will figure out a way for them to vote.  That's their signature move. 

Chicago is now issuing an ID called "Citykey" intended specifically for illegals who can't present legal documents for a state ID.  Citykey will be accepted as ID to register to vote.  All the illegals have to do is check a box that says, "I am a U.S. citizen."  Not much of a stretch for people who crossed rivers and deserts to be here.  Brilliant!  That was almost entirely done to try to save Rahm Emanual's job as mayor.  Imagine what Dems would do to retake Congress . . .




I'm going to accept your word on everything you've said.

Fuk burnsred, we're having a good day aren't we!

It's obviously driven the pig to a slow burn.
  
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kaz
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #15 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:58pm
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I'm going to accept your word on everything you've said.

Fuk burnsred, we're having a good day aren't we!

It's obviously driven the pig to a slow burn.


Yes, you're tuned into my emotions.  You're a fabulous chick.  Well done.

The judges are just laughing at you right now
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #16 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:15pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:58pm:
Yes, you're tuned into my emotions.  You're a fabulous chick.  Well done.

The judges are just laughing at you right now


The judges? Come on pig, who in hell are those judges? Are you suggesting there are some imaginary judges deciding on whether I get a 'troll' from you?

Look pig, I demand that you stop the troll stuff right now.

Consider this demand renewed every day now. I can't be bothered anymore when you won't listen to 'authority'!
  
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kaz
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #17 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:20pm
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The judges? Come on pig, who in hell are those judges? Are you suggesting there are some imaginary judges deciding on whether I get a 'troll' from you?

Look pig, I demand that you stop the troll stuff right now.

Consider this demand renewed every day now. I can't be bothered anymore when you won't listen to 'authority'!


Trolling the judges.  Hmm ... interesting.  I wonder where you're headed with this.

In the meantime, here you go!


  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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The Opposition
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #18 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 12:36pm:
That's a very good theory, but it has never been supported in practice.  In practice, people tend to have kids no matter how poor they are.  First because of the desire to have sex, which is a pure animal instinct that humans have not been willing or able to control for economic reasons.

Second, because even when birth control is available, people want to have children.  Women in particular will want to have children.  Not being traditionally as burdened with societal expectation of being good providers, they will often be overly optimistic that others will provide for both herself and for her children.  In the states it works out with enforced child support and with welfare.  In poor countries not so much, but the babies keep on coming.


In absolutely pure capitalism, they will starve. The worker who just has babies anyway will be unable to compete with the worker who does not.

You can say that private charity will support them, but that's a self-defeating argument. If it does, they will have more and more babies. Eventually a tipping point will be reached and they will start starving.

Even if a small segment survives through charity permanently, this is the new "welfare pie" that everyone must compete for, and generally people from poorer countries are seen as more "needy".

Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 12:36pm:
Yes, it would fix itself when people in poor countries literally starved along with their pre-childbearing aged children.  But as you said, they can just come here instead.  They not only compete with our workers but also with our own "poor" for slices of the welfare pie.


If welfare is abolished, the first part will still be true. So we get their worst. Their best are going to want to stay and breed, if they can. Their worst will have to come here and toil for subsistence.

Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 12:36pm:
Right.  But it hasn't led to starvation in the U.S. but rather to government subsidizing low-wage work through welfare.


This is also unsustainable. The lady in the article who won't have a kid because she can't afford it will get selected out. The people who will just breed anyway get rewarded. So there will be more and more competition for jobs and more and more need for subsidy to avoid starvation. Eventually this will reach a tipping point.

Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 2:33pm:
We need a steady flow of unskilled immigrants because our current unskilled labor pool doesn't want to labor when welfare is available.  Unskilled immigrants are willing to sweat for a living so that their children can be the skilled and educated workers of the next generation.  Our Americans who have been unskilled and uneducated for a generations are the direct result of the policies of the Democratic Party as I believe you are well aware.


They're also a result of education inflation. A lot of our waitresses and workers have bachelor's degrees or better.

http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1518638898/2#2
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Sure, the average job is more intellectually demanding than it once was, but researchers find that only explains 20% of the workforce's rising education. What explains the remaining 80%? Employers' expectations have risen across the board. Waiter, bartender, cashier, security guard: These are now common jobs for those with bachelor's degrees.


And we're importing as much education as we can for the "good" jobs. The guy with a degree in basketweaving is the exception, not the rule. These people are qualified for the jobs we're outsourcing or importing people into, and they become waitresses. This doesn't add up. Someone is getting hosed.

But I think the lady in the article is pretty typical of an American. She's not going to get pregnant because she knows she can't afford it.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Can Pure Libertarian Capitalism Destroy a Population?
Reply #19 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 12:36pm:
That's a very good theory, but it has never been supported in practice.  In practice, people tend to have kids no matter how poor they are.  First because of the desire to have sex, which is a pure animal instinct that humans have not been willing or able to control for economic reasons.  Second, because even when birth control is available, people want to have children.  Women in particular will want to have children.  Not being traditionally as burdened with societal expectation of being good providers, they will often be overly optimistic that others will provide for both herself and for her children.  In the states it works out with enforced child support and with welfare.  In poor countries not so much, but the babies keep on coming.   
Poor people, really poor people, traditionally have more children because they need them to work to help support the family and because they hope some of the children will live long enough to take care of them in their old age. And sometimes because they love children and it's all they have.
  
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