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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . . (Read 907 times)
Jeff
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #20 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 9:11am:
Probably The Donald should have called his plan "asset forfeiture"... SCOTUS has already approved that.
Nobody sees a connection?

Trump certainly knows about using eminent domain to transfer property from one private owner to another, why would it be unreasonable to believe he knows SCOTUS has also approved "asset forfeiture", which is also taking first and "due process" after.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #21 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:44pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Nobody sees a connection?

Trump certainly knows about using eminent domain to transfer property from one private owner to another, why would it be unreasonable to believe he knows SCOTUS has also approved "asset forfeiture", which is also taking first and "due process" after.


As I've said many time, the minute we accept that the government can take things from us by force as long as it is for the collective good, nothing is left but to wait for government to tell us what it does and does not define as the collective good.
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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kaz
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #22 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:44pm:
As I've said many time, the minute we accept that the government can take things from us by force as long as it is for the collective good, nothing is left but to wait for government to tell us what it does and does not define as the collective good.


Or ... you can define it in the Constitution ... as the founders did ...

Guess what, roads are there, midnight basketball isn't ...
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Snarky Sack
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #23 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 7:57pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Or ... you can define it in the Constitution ... as the founders did ...

Guess what, roads are there, midnight basketball isn't ...



It is you and Jeff who think the constitution is libertarian.  But for the sake of argument, let's say it is for this post.  I assume you mean its exact words not some "living document" interpretation of it?

The Constitution specifies roads specifically for the post office to use.  Postage stamps could pay for those with no theft needed.  Plus people could use the roads for non-postal business.  The only downside I see is for those who want the government to steal for the sake of stealing.

  

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Don_G
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #24 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 8:24pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 7:57pm:
It is you and Jeff who think the constitution is libertarian.  But for the sake of argument, let's say it is for this post.  I assume you mean its exact words not some "living document" interpretation of it?

The Constitution specifies roads specifically for the post office to use.  Postage stamps could pay for those with no theft needed.  Plus people could use the roads for non-postal business.  The only downside I see is for those who want the government to steal for the sake of stealing.



You're saying that the government run postal service could support itself. I understand it does!

And the truth is, it can do it cheaper than a courier service and likely better quality service too!
  
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kaz
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #25 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 10:04pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 7:57pm:
It is you and Jeff who think the constitution is libertarian.  But for the sake of argument, let's say it is for this post.  I assume you mean its exact words not some "living document" interpretation of it?

The Constitution specifies roads specifically for the post office to use.  Postage stamps could pay for those with no theft needed.  Plus people could use the roads for non-postal business.  The only downside I see is for those who want the government to steal for the sake of stealing.



And yet I advocate a lot less government stealing than you do.  You advocate the system we have now with the deck chairs rearranged
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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The Opposition
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #26 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 11:16pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Well, yes.  Just like once you buy into the idea that it's ok for government to steal because roads, it's only a short trip (on those government roads) to say that it's ok for government to steal because midnite basketball.


Since nobody really understood this, it's about the inherent legitimacy of the act of taking money.

Is it really possible for an act that would otherwise be theft to become legitimate non-theft because of what the thief does with the money?

Oh, and more on-topic, I was going to say that I wondered how many depressed people will kill themselves when deprived of their rights because they're depressed.

I'm fine with not having rights, but only because my ego is enough to fill the gap.

Poor, poor depressed people. They'll just kill themselves with a pill, you know.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #27 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 11:23pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 11:16pm:
Since nobody really understood this, it's about the inherent legitimacy of the act of taking money.

Is it really possible for an act that would otherwise be theft to become legitimate non-theft because of what the thief does with the money?


The difference is consent of the governed.  The government is not stealing if it has consent of the governed and building roads is recognized as a legitimate function of the government.

Like in ours.

Living my entire life a half mile from my home because government can't build roads and I have to sit in a tower all day protecting my property because there are no police and no courts does not maximize my liberty.  It just doesn't.

This is a libertarian board.  John Locke is the father of classic liberalism.  That consent of the government goes over your and the head of others on the board is frankly inane
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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SkyChief
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #28 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 11:37pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 7:57pm:
The Constitution specifies roads specifically for the post office to use...  The only downside I see is for those who want the government to steal for the sake of stealing.


Don't forget redistribution...     Smiley
  
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The Opposition
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Re: "I like taking the guns early . . . Take the guns now and . . .
Reply #29 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 11:37pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 11:23pm:
This is a libertarian board.  John Locke is the father of classic liberalism.  That consent of the government goes over your and the head of others on the board is frankly inane


It doesn't. Consent of the governed is a complex issue and it's difficult to get the people on this very board to agree what exactly it's defined by.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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