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Jeff
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Re: Does 2A really guarantee the right to bear bombs, nukes, etc?
Reply #20 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:21am
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 10:52pm:
This is actually one of the rare threads where Don clearly has the upper hand.

If you say people shouldn't have doomsday devices, which are clearly arms, because that's unreasonable, then you accept, inherently, that the Second Amendment is constrained by common sense rather than being boundless - there is no absolute right to bear any arms.

This means that if someone wants to have a discussion with you about it being unreasonable for one child to die, you have to address it on that person's home turf. Because you just admitted Reasonable > 2A.

Nevermind that reasonable is going to be different for different people, and you are fast becoming the minority here.
Who are you talking to?

People all over the world now have nukes, which you cleverly call "doomsday devices" in order to prejudice the conversation.

Is it "reasonable" to recognize that law abiding people have a right to adequate means of defense? And not just self defense.

Here's a link to what U.S. State Constitutions have to say about the issue-

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/statecon.htm

You'll notice it repeated many times, a "right to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state."

I will assert that's its not reasonable to believe that people can adequately exercise their right to bear arms in defense of the state if they are prohibited from having arms suitable to the defense of the state.

If you live where drug gangs armed with automatic weapons are terrorizing your community, you need automatic weapons to defend yourself and your community from them, which is something you clearly have a right to do.

Edit: Are you worried that some billionaire with his own rockets will buy a nuke from Russia and use it on one of his competitors?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Does 2A really guarantee the right to bear bombs, nukes, etc?
Reply #21 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 3:12pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:21am:
Are you worried that some billionaire with his own rockets will buy a nuke from Russia and use it on one of his competitors?


No. My position is that reasonable doesn't come into it. A right to bear arms is a right to bear arms.

My point was that if you exclude anything on the grounds of unreasonable, Don wins, because he excludes guns on the grounds of guns being unreasonable, and he's probably in the majority. Or if not, he soon will be.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Does 2A really guarantee the right to bear bombs, nukes, etc?
Reply #22 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 3:43pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 3:12pm:
No. My position is that reasonable doesn't come into it.
OK, I was wrong. You aren't agreeing totally at all times with ahhell, it's thermie you agree with. I'll keep that in mind.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Does 2A really guarantee the right to bear bombs, nukes, etc?
Reply #23 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 6:52pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 3:43pm:
OK, I was wrong. You aren't agreeing totally at all times with ahhell, it's thermie you agree with. I'll keep that in mind.
I thought this was interesting.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Does 2A really guarantee the right to bear bombs, nukes, etc?
Reply #24 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 9:24pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 3:12pm:
No. My position is that reasonable doesn't come into it. A right to bear arms is a right to bear arms.



Correct.  The natural right to bear arms means that it is up to the individual to decide what is reasonable. 

Now the constitutional "right to keep and bear arms" belongs only to well-regulated militias just as the amendment states.  So it will be the federal government who provides for discipline that makes sure the militias are reasonably armed.
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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