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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade' (Read 1938 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #70 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 3:10pm
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BobK71 wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 1:49pm:
The key part of human civilization is simply a set of rules...
Not exactly. The key to civilized societies is to have the rule of law, which is far more than a just set of rules.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #71 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 8:59am
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It's well underway, the marijuana industry is going to be a big moneymaker for cronies and the governments they buy.

http://thecrux.com/why-washington-insiders-are-suddenly-turning-bullish-on-marij...
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #72 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 12:19pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 26th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It's well underway, the marijuana industry is going to be a big moneymaker for cronies and the governments they buy.

http://thecrux.com/why-washington-insiders-are-suddenly-turning-bullish-on-marij...


You much too often forget that you're supposed to be a libertarian, and then you go and shoot off your mouth on your true feelings.

You're not one Craig. You're a closet leftist pretending to be a conservative rightist.

You're the best hope among these crazyass wankers of seeing the light. Although the new dragon shows some promise of saying the wrong thing.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #73 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 3:05pm
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You much too often forget that you're supposed to be a libertarian, and then you go and shoot off your mouth on your true feelings.

You're not one Craig. You're a closet leftist pretending to be a conservative rightist.

You're the best hope among these crazyass wankers of seeing the light. Although the new dragon shows some promise of saying the wrong thing.
The government is in the process of creating another heavily regulated hugely profitable crony industry, and you think libertarians should be happy about it?
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #74 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 5:27pm
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Your long suit is always reasoning Bob but you're always short suited on libertarian principles to apply to the problems.

What about just 'principles?'  What potential problems do you see with my proposed solutions?  (Again, this is to avoid spending much time discussing the label 'libertarian.')

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It causes me to wonder what you're doing here? Can you explain?

I'm guessing this is one of the places where my ideas about the reality we live under will have better reception than most.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #75 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 5:32pm
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BobK71 wrote on Apr 26th, 2018 at 5:27pm:
(Again, this is to avoid spending much time discussing the label 'libertarian.')

If everyone is in agreement that libertarians are the intellectual heirs of classical liberal thought, I agree, why waste time on obvious well known facts?
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #76 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 5:42pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
The government will never allow non-fiat currency.  They need to be able to debase the currency for growth.  If a currency is backed by something, it can't be debased (inflated).


I think 40+ years of 'totally fiat' money has made people forget that most of modern history lived under a gold or silver standard, and that these 4+ decades have been the most financially unstable period in modern history, with the possible exception of the 20s and 30s.

Don't forget that metallic standards were not only set up by the elites themselves, economic orthodoxy was also that they were absolutely necessary (to stabilize money.)  It was only after every country defaulted on gold, that gold became an evil, according to those same establishment economists, as a group.

Metallic standards have proved stable over the centuries, as long as the elites hold enough gold/silver to defend the system against a run on the metal.  With today's volume of state issued money and debt out there, this would require a much higher price of gold and silver by today's standards.

My sense is that the elites would *love* to get back to a hard-money standard, but using gold or silver would require a very embarrassing devaluation of dollars and euro against the metals.  So they're trying to make Bitcoin into the new gold.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #77 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 5:52pm
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BobK71 wrote on Apr 26th, 2018 at 5:42pm:
Don't forget that metallic standards were not only set up by the elites themselves, economic orthodoxy was also that they were absolutely necessary (to stabilize money.)  It was only after every country defaulted on gold, that gold became an evil, according to those same establishment economists, as a group.

Let's just say that historically, people have preferred to be paid in gold and silver and copper and nickle rather than being "paid" in fiat/scrip/phony not-money.

Who would ever guess?
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #78 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 6:01pm
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I think you're missing the real problem completely. The people have been duped into accepting the American way. We should discuss what that means, not just ignore it.

The purely capitalist US system is failing the people but they're oblivious of the plain fact that people in other countreis are enjoying the success of capitalism with a blend of socialism fitted in.

The rich, the elite, protect the vision of the American way at all costs. Anything else would bring the hoarders of wealth and the super rich down.

Libertarianism is the protest movement against that American way. But the people on this board haven't been able to escape their indoctrination yet. They absolutely don't understand that other countries that have leanded left by including socialist policy, have found the answer.

Are you there yet Bob?


I understand I might have replied to this already, but here is a reply that hopefully is more carefully considered.

What you seem to call pure capitalism, US style, is no free market at all.  This is what I have been saying.  This 'free market' is manipulated at the core by the elite control of money and other core assets.  (I've been at pains to explain why and how.)

Furthermore, the ills of US society ultimately stems from this lack of a true free market.  (An example at hand is the 'free trade' in my original post.)

And contrary to what you might believe, I think leftist redistribution policies are a protest against the status quo, and an attempt to redress the worst grievances of the system.  As noble minded as such ideas may be, they won't solve the real problem, because they never address it.

It's also true that America suffers the most from the lack of this redress, among 'rich countries.'  But the reason is that the Western elites must maintain a proper imperial order that puts America at the top, which means giving it the freest markets and the least public redistribution, among other things, in order to prop up confidence in the money and debt America issues.

So while I would agree with you on many things, we seem to have different fundamental views on how things work.  But that's OK.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Misunderstandings of 'Free Trade'
Reply #79 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 6:54pm
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BobK71 wrote on Apr 26th, 2018 at 6:01pm:
Furthermore, the ills of US society ultimately stems from this lack of a true free market.
Most of the ills are caused by "progressive" laws and "regulations" imposed on us by various governments, just as you say.
  
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