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Snarky Sack
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I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:43am
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Trump's "Four Pillars" idea would have allowed Republicans to vote for Amnesty and still be able to tell their constituents with a straight face that they are for secure borders.  Nobody was really talking about the visa lottery until Trump brought it up, so that one could have been sacrificed in order to get the other three.

Instead the Dems used their usual method of negotiating which is to insist on the GOP giving them all they want before the negotiations even start.  "Let's take care of the DREAMers now and talk about that wall thingie later."  I guess it's hard to blame the Dems for using that strategy when the GOP has fallen for it so many times.

So the American people lost a chance to promote second class citizens to first class citizens and to slow down the influx of new second class citizens. 

The Supreme Court is sure to overrule lower courts idiotic claims that the current president cannot undo an executive order by his predecessor.  Unless they wimp out and refuse to take the case.  If they do, the Dems would be once again handed a victory by the courts that they could have never won at the polls.
  

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Don_G
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #1 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 12:27pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:43am:
Instead the Dems used their usual method of negotiating which is to insist on the GOP giving them all they want before the negotiations even start.


That's just a negotiating tactic which you understood yesterday. But you may be interested to know that you have voiced the counter-tactic. If you have any negotiating strength then you refuse to negotiate under those terms.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #2 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 12:54pm
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That's just a negotiating tactic which you understood yesterday. But you may be interested to know that you have voiced the counter-tactic. If you have any negotiating strength then you refuse to negotiate under those terms.


Yes, very true. 

Problem is that there can be no negotiations when people are afraid to let the other side have anything for fear of losing the next election.  Trump is different because any one given deal is never that important to him.  If he gets the worst of one deal, he get the better of the next three.  For a politician, there may well never be a next time because their base will abandon them.  Look at what happened to Bush 41 when he gave in on tax hikes.




  

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Don_G
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #3 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 1:08pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
Yes, very true. 

Problem is that there can be no negotiations when people are afraid to let the other side have anything for fear of losing the next election.


Alright then let's talk about it. That can only make sense to me if you describe what needs to be negotiated. I see playing on one side's fear as negotiating strength.



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  For a politician, there may well never be a next time because their base will abandon them.  Look at what happened to Bush 41 when he gave in on tax hikes.






Whatever? Do you have anything to say on the topic?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #4 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 1:43pm
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Alright then let's talk about it. That can only make sense to me if you describe what needs to be negotiated. I see playing on one side's fear as negotiating strength.




Whatever? Do you have anything to say on the topic?


What the two sides need to negotiate is a way to allow the victims  of our open borders policy to legally stay in the country, while at the same time assuring existing citizens that this wide open border free for all will not be continued.




  

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Don_G
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #5 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 2:41pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 1:43pm:
What the two sides need to negotiate is a way to allow the victims  of our open borders policy to legally stay in the country, while at the same time assuring existing citizens that this wide open border free for all will not be continued.






It could be framed as being all about the need for the cheap labour.

or

It could be framed as being humanitarian concerns.

Or

whatever you think it's all about?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #6 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 3:02pm
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It could be framed as being all about the need for the cheap labour.

or

It could be framed as being humanitarian concerns.

Or

whatever you think it's all about?


There're no humanitarian concerns.  If there were, the humanitarian thing would be to close the southern border as tightly as possible to discourage the traffic in drugs, gang recruits and young girls.  Also to prevent the deaths among the people we encourage to cross deserts and mountains to immigrate illegally.

It's cheap labor for the Republicans and cheap labor plus votes for the Democrats. 

The DREAMers aren't a source of cheap labor, nor legal votes.  I'd imagine they's be less likely to vote illegally than those who came illegally by choice. 

so both Dems and Reps care far more about more recent and near future illegals than those brought here as children.




  

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Jeff
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #7 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:06pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:43am:
Trump's "Four Pillars" idea...
... was, I think, copyrighted by Mao.

Mao's heirs should sue The Donald for stealing Mao's pillars. That's what I think.
  
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Jeff
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #8 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:08pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 1:43pm:
What the two sides need to negotiate is a way to allow the victims  of our open borders policy to legally stay in the country, while at the same time assuring existing citizens that this wide open border free for all will not be continued.




Wasn't it Obamas' open borders policy?

Why call it "ours"?
  
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Jeff
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Re: I am Seriously Disappointed that the Dems/Reps Torpedoed DACA Deal
Reply #9 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:11pm
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I agree that Obama victimized a lot of people all over the world.

Why call that "our" fault?
  
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