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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #110 - Apr 6th, 2018 at 8:49am
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Another reason it costs so much to live in California-

http://reason.com/blog/2018/04/05/starbucks-just-lost-a-stupid-cancer-laws?utm_m...
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #111 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 2:47pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 4:35pm:
Only a few members of Congress have any interest in the Liberty of American Citizens, and they are marginalized and ostracized.

I agree.

Jeff wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 4:35pm:
That means almost certainly that everybody but government and their cronies in Kalifornia are most certainly going to be crappity smacked.

Don't agree.   

By de-crentralizing government in California, voters will have much better represtentation.  We will no longer be subject to stupid laws and regulations which come out of Sacramento.  Only Northern California will remain a "Sanctuary State", because the moonbats are concentrated in that area, and they stand the the most to gain (politically) from remaining a sanctuary state (i.e. votes for Democrats).



Draper gathered 600,000 signatures, which was a  “milestone” and sent a message that people across California would “create a brighter future for everyone.”

With only 364,000 signatures needed to force a referendum, a vote will be held on the proposal this November, alongside the midterm elections.

https://www.rt.com/usa/423939-california-three-separate-states/
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #112 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:27pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 2:47pm:
By de-crentralizing government in California, voters will have much better represtentation.  We will no longer be subject to stupid laws and regulations which come out of Sacramento.  Only Northern California will remain a "Sanctuary State", because the moonbats are concentrated in that area, and they stand the the most to gain (politically) from remaining a sanctuary state (i.e. votes for Democrats).


If a majority of people voting approve of it, the new State of Jefferson can apply to Congress for admission to the Union.

There is no guarantee that the people elected to serve in the Jefferson government will be any good either, they might just have a different set of bad laws in mind.

Is there a proposed Constitution yet, or will it be you have to ratify it before you can see it.

Would a majority in Congress be willing to add a Free State? That doesn't seem likely to me right now.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #113 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 10:47pm
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duplicate - sorry....
« Last Edit: Apr 12th, 2018 at 11:54pm by SkyChief »  
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #114 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 11:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:27pm:
If a majority of people voting approve of it, the new State of Jefferson can apply to Congress for admission to the Union.

agreed.

Jeff wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:27pm:
There is no guarantee that the people elected to serve in the Jefferson government will be any good either, they might just have a different set of bad laws in mind.

agreed. Fortunately, though, the "new" states wish to separate ourselves from moonbat policy of the current state. 

Jeff wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:27pm:
Is there a proposed Constitution yet, or will it be you have to ratify it before you can see it.

No proposed constitution yet, but the new Constitutions will align better with national standards, i.e., no more sanctuary cities. We will adhere to established Federal immigration law(s).

Jeff wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:27pm:
Would a majority in Congress be willing to add a Free State? That doesn't seem likely to me right now.

I think they would.  No reason for them not to - they still will receive the same amount of tax revenues to spend on special-interest programs.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #115 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:02am
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As this plays out, I have a few thoughts about "enforced proximity". This is unrelated to my earlier insistence that Governor Brown is a hero. He plainly is.

The people who want to go away and be amongst only each other, are always demonised.

My question is why? Let's distill this down to two organisms - let's say cats and dogs - and imagine that the dogs want to live under dog policies, the cats want to leave and live amongst each other with cat policies, and the dogs object to the cats leaving.

If the cats are somehow bad, or racist, or whatever else you've got in your dog arsenal, why would you even want to live with them? Wouldn't you be better off if they went away and stopped oppressing you?

Now let's distill it down to just two people, and take as a given that neither is infatuated with the other. If one person wants to be by himself, and the other is insistent upon proximity, who is the likely victim here?



This is a picture of a human eye infested with the larvae of the screw worm fly.

It goes without saying that the larvae desire the proximity and the human just wants to be by himself.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #116 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:22am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:02am:
This is a picture of a human eye infested with the larvae of the screw worm fly.

It goes without saying that the larvae desire the proximity and the human just wants to be by himself.

The screw-worms are ummm...  screwed.

They lack the intelligence for survival.

humans............1

screw worms ....0
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #117 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:58am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:22am:
The screw-worms are ummm...  screwed.

They lack the intelligence for survival.

humans............1

screw worms ....0


Let's pretend we're in a weird world where the screw worms are intelligent... but... what they're doing to the human has been somehow defined out of being aggression.

The human is still objectively worse off (I hope you'll agree) with the screw worms than without them. The screw worms are better off with the human than without him.

I think there is something very telling revealed about the type of relationship when one partner insists that the other partner must not leave.

I actually think this is very telling about who opposes the right to secession and who does not.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #118 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 3:03am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:58am:
Let's pretend we're in a weird world where the screw worms are intelligent... but... what they're doing to the human has been somehow defined out of being aggression.

The human is still objectively worse off (I hope you'll agree) with the screw worms than without them. The screw worms are better off with the human than without him.

I think there is something very telling revealed about the type of relationship when one partner insists that the other partner must not leave.

The screw worms are parasites.  The lawmakers in Sacramento are parasites.  Separate them from their host (Californian taxpayers), and they will surely perish. 

Many Californians want to be rid of these parasites in Sacramento. Or at least confine them to an area where they cannot be a menace to others.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #119 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:30pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 3:03am:
The screw worms are parasites.  The lawmakers in Sacramento are parasites.  Separate them from their host (Californian taxpayers), and they will surely perish. 

Many Californians want to be rid of these parasites in Sacramento. Or at least confine them to an area where they cannot be a menace to others.


What I'm trying to suggest is that parasitism isn't always aggression.

Imagine that there's one person who is very smart, named Tey, and one person who is very stupid, named Bor. Tey always manages to get Bor's stuff without aggression.

Every time Bor gets a paycheck, it always ends up in Tey's pocket without Bor gaining anything by it. Bor has lost by such decisions as making bad bets, or agreeing to things that were not quite what they seemed.

Tey is clever so he manages to avoid anything that would be defined as aggression. He makes sure not to break any laws.

Bob is still objectively better off if Tey did not exist, while Tey is objectively worse off if Bob did not exist.

I believe this is a defining characteristic of [loosely, of course] parasitism. Not necessarily living on or in the host, but still parasitising the host in some fashion.

I wonder what a logical response to parasitism without aggression would be.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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