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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #120 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:15am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:30pm:
What I'm trying to suggest is that parasitism isn't always aggression.

Imagine that there's one person who is very smart, named Tey, and one person who is very stupid, named Bor. Tey always manages to get Bor's stuff without aggression.

Every time Bor gets a paycheck, it always ends up in Tey's pocket without Bor gaining anything by it. Bor has lost by such decisions as making bad bets, or agreeing to things that were not quite what they seemed.

Tey is clever so he manages to avoid anything that would be defined as aggression. He makes sure not to break any laws.

Bob is still objectively better off if Tey did not exist, while Tey is objectively worse off if Bob did not exist.

I believe this is a defining characteristic of [loosely, of course] parasitism. Not necessarily living on or in the host, but still parasitising the host in some fashion.

I wonder what a logical response to parasitism without aggression would be.
Sounds like Marxism for dummies to me... Why not say that Tey is a "capitalist" who cleverly exploits Bor? That proves that "capitalists" are parasites, right? Because Tey gets rich without working, and Bor is exploited so that Tey gets everything he earns.

Maybe you could apply that screwworm analogy to a crony capitalist/mercantile system where a symbiotic relationship between government and selected big businesses act as a parasite, but if that's what you mean, you should be specific, and of course all parasites are thieves.

Are you a parasite when you win money playing blackjack?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #121 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:09am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:30pm:
Every time Bor gets a paycheck, it always ends up in Tey's pocket without Bor gaining anything by it. Bor has lost by such decisions as making bad bets, or agreeing to things that were not quite what they seemed.


I wonder what a logical response to parasitism without aggression would be.

Animal behaviors, like aggression, can directly affect host health by influencing exposure to parasites.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347217302518

So it is actually Bor who we would expect to display aggression - not Tey.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #122 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:09am:
So it is actually Bor who we would expect to display aggression - not Tey.
Bor is a bad loser? How can you be sure? You know this guy?

Bor agreed to gamble with Tey. (He hoped to take some money from Tey without having to work. Smiley)

Since we're talking psychologically, Is Bor an Idiot? Someone that needs to be carefully  monitored like a child?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #123 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:33pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:09am:
So it is actually Bor who we would expect to display aggression - not Tey.


For the purposes of the example, I would like to assume that aggression is an absolute non-option for either of them.

Since the dullard Bor will always lose everything if he is in any kind of association with clever Tey whatsoever, his only option is flight.

I think this is extremely analogous to what's happening in California, and everywhere for that matter. We have parasitism within the rules, and the objectively inferior people are losing, but they are also objectively better off if they were to live only among each other.

Their answer to this unique form of non-aggressive parasitism is not aggression, but flight.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #124 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:40pm
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:33pm:
For the purposes of the example, I would like to assume that aggression is an absolute non-option for either of them.

I can't accept that. Parasites steal from their hosts.

Anything you say based on the assumption that theft is not aggression is guaranteed nonsense.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #125 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:43pm
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:33pm:
Since the dullard Bor will always lose everything if he is in any kind of association with clever Tey whatsoever, his only option is flight.

OK, I read the rest anyway, for entertainment purposes...

Dor doesn't need to flee, he just needs to realize that he's bad at gambling and always loses money. Then he can say, "Sorry Tey, I don't want to play cards with you for money."

If Tey is actually swindling Dor, Dor can file a complaint, or at least stay away from the creep.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #126 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:52pm
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:33pm:
I think this is extremely analogous to what's happening in California, and everywhere for that matter. We have parasitism within the rules, and the objectively inferior people are losing...
It was well worth it to read on! Cheesy

The rules for parasites in nature is you kill them if you can, and if you can't, they feed on you.

Not even Kalifornia is anything like that yet.

Now, as to these "objectively inferior people", I assume you claim them to be "objectively inferior" because a parasitical government is bleeding them with illegal "laws" and they haven't yet killed the parasite? Are you trying to foment an active revolution?

Probably I'm confused by you again, and you should explain what determines that someone is "objectively" inferior.

I hope you don't mean to say short people are "objectively" inferior? 

Probably not.

Let's discuss it more! Thanks.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #127 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:34pm
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:33pm:
...Since the dullard Bor will always lose everything if he is in any kind of association with clever Tey whatsoever, his only option is flight.

I think this is extremely analogous to what's happening in California...

I agree.  Many of my long-time friends have fled to other parts of the country.  My one remaining friend recently purchased some land in the outskits of Prescott, AZ.  When construction of the house is complete, he will leave, too.   Cry
  
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #128 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 4:16pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:34pm:
My one remaining friend recently purchased some land in the outskits of Prescott, AZ.  When construction of the house is complete, he will leave, too.   Cry
He's retired right? And selling his Kalifornia house will make him well-off, even in Prescott.

What about the people who aren't retired and don't have any job prospects anywhere?

They are the people who will probably choose to stay and fight instead of fleeing... What choice do they have?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #129 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:07pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 4:16pm:
He's retired right? And selling his Kalifornia house will make him well-off, even in Prescott.

He is retired, yes.  Selling his (California) house is inconsequential, though. 

Jeff wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 4:16pm:
What about the people who aren't retired and don't have any job prospects anywhere?

They are the people who will probably choose to stay and fight instead of fleeing... What choice do they have?

Excellent point.  And,  of course,  there are those who are not retired, but still want to leave...

But they can't because they are upside-down on their mortagages, and can't afford to leave.

(like me.   Cry)
  
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