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Billie
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #130 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:09am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
He is retired, yes.  Selling his (California) house is inconsequential, though. 

Excellent point.  And,  of course,  there are those who are not retired, but still want to leave...

But they can't because they are upside-down on their mortagages, and can't afford to leave.

(like me.   Cry)
A timely article-

https://www.wsj.com/articles/just-how-widespread-is-the-housing-shortage-1523876...

I hope you notice that "regulation" is a large factor in the shortage of housing, and can see that shortages cause prices to go up.
  
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ahhell
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #131 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 12:29pm
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/21/us/california-today-states-homeless-populatio...

Anyone see this story?  Americas most progressive state is home to a quarter of its homeless, about twice its share.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #132 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 12:44pm
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ahhell wrote on Apr 20th, 2018 at 12:29pm:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/21/us/california-today-states-homeless-populatio...

Anyone see this story?  Americas most progressive state is home to a quarter of its homeless, about twice its share. 


Don't you have any interest in understanding why that is true? You're better than that ahhell, or at least I've suspected that you are?

You libertarians need to resist the move to the right. Probably the best conversation we're ever had on this board was the discussion on Norway's prison system. It showed the way to success that was undeniable even to your extreme rightist, burnsred.

I don't mean to specifically push their prison system on you but just to help you to start thinking in a more proper direction. It's the only way out of the mess your country is in now. You know, the  mess you all complain about.

How does this pertain to California? It pertains directly to humanity.

And also to mention fwiw, universal health care is a
SLAM DUNK!

It all fits together and you are bright enough to get it.

How about this: Challenge yourself and tell me why California has the highest number of homeless. Or tell us what Texas does to have slightly less?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #133 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 12:52pm
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"80% of homeless people in Los Angeles live on the street or in public parks."

Yep. I can attest to that.  I had the displeasure of doing business in Los Angeles a few weeks ago.  I was shocked to see that Skid Row has expanded to encompass most of south Los Angeles. It used to be a couple of streets near 6th and Alameda - now it has expanded all the way to 4th and Maple.

You could actually smell the filth and squalor. 

Disgusting.

  
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Don_G
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #134 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:04pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 20th, 2018 at 12:52pm:
"80% of homeless people in Los Angeles live on the street or in public parks."

Yep. I can attest to that.  I had the displeasure of doing business in Los Angeles a few weeks ago.  I was shocked to see that Skid Row has expanded to encompass most of south Los Angeles. It used to be a couple of streets near 6th and Alameda.

You could actually smell the filth and squalor. 

Disgusting.

https://westsidetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bn-homeless91616.jpg


And then you show that you're so stupid on the issue that your verify my points I've made.

Government in Californis is shown in those pictures to be not progressive enough to look after the homeless.

You do ahhell no favours. You have no advice for finding a solution. You don't want to recognize that Calitornia is a border state that receives more immigrants and also has a warm climate that allows homeless people to live on the streets.

As I've already said, you're too childish to even think of offering a solution. You have no idea and that's consistent with your libertarian persuasion that has no ideas on how to fix government. It's freely admitted to not be a solution for either a state or a country.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #135 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:32pm
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Don_G wrote on Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:04pm:
And then you show that you're so stupid on the issue that your verify my points I've made.

Government in Californis is shown in those pictures to be not progressive enough to look after the homeless.

As ususal, you completely miss the point.  The article explains how the 'progressive' (socialist) leadership in Sacramento has turned California (esp. L.A.) into a magnet for homeless and illegal immigrants.

The more wealth they re-distribute, the worse the condition becomes.

Don_G wrote on Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:04pm:
You have no advice for finding a solution...

As I've already said, you're too childish to even think of offering a solution. You have no idea and that's consistent with your libertarian persuasion that has no ideas on how to fix government.

Ad hominem, Straw-Man arguments.  Irrelevant.
No libertarian needs to offer solutions for the shortcomings of bad 'progressive' leadership.  We only need to be advocates of self-ownership and limitations on government.

"We seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others" - Libertarin Party

"As government expands, Liberty contracts."  -  President Ronald Reagan

Hope this helps!   Smiley
  
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ahhell
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #136 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:41pm
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There is little doubt that the climate plays a role by enabling folks to live on the street with out fear of the weather.  There is also little doubt that policy from Sacramento and progressive cities has done the same along with restrictive development policies driving up the cost of living.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #137 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 7:31pm
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ahhell wrote on Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:41pm:
There is little doubt that the climate plays a role by enabling folks to live on the street with out fear of the weather.  There is also little doubt that policy from Sacramento and progressive cities has done the same along with restrictive development policies driving up the cost of living.


Right. Progressive cities allow people to live on the street. It doesn't require much thought to understand this is a libertarian priority in that government has no right to kick them off the streets.

Restrictive development policies driving up the cost of living can hardly be blamed on progressives, wouldn't you agree?

California will continue to be a very desirable place to live and the cost of living in California will reflect that. I neither commend the m or condemn them for that.

My province of British Columbia is also a very desirable place to live and we don't want to see it destroyed.

Fwiw, Oregon is too and for years it's protected it's beauty be resisting outright development for the sake of development. They could have actually been the first to 'regulate' the return of pop and beer cans!
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #138 - Apr 21st, 2018 at 7:13am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:32pm:
The more wealth they re-distribute, the worse the condition becomes.


I keep trying to tell people that this is basically a truism.

If there are five people, and four oranges, no amount of redistribution will result in everyone getting a whole orange.

You're not solving poverty by redistributing anything; you're just redistributing poverty.
- Me
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Don_G
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #139 - Apr 21st, 2018 at 12:38pm
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 21st, 2018 at 7:13am:
I keep trying to tell people that this is basically a truism.

If there are five people, and four oranges, no amount of redistribution will result in everyone getting a whole orange.

You're not solving poverty by redistributing anything; you're just redistributing poverty.
- Me


That's something stupid that would be said by a pseudo-libertarian. Poor people wouldn't even be interested in part of an orange anyway.

If you have 5 boxcars full of food and you distribute it to 6 groups of people, everybody will be fed. And the capitalist can sit and eat all 5 oranges to compensate for his bad feelings over seeing social responsibility in action.

Chances are though, that US capitalist will lobby his government to drop 5 bombs on the boxcars to destroy the food. Supposing the boxcars were in Syria or Iraq or N. Korea.

Better the US stick to the 5 oranges!
  
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