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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost (Read 3063 times)
ahhell
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #10 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:11pm
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Arnorld was a moderate conservative at worst, he actually did try to take a few of the forces making California so unlivable, they beat him and he gave up.  He stuck with popular but mostly bad policy from there on out. 

If you don't understand socially responsible conservatives, ask me and I'll tell you.


  
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Sicklers Dink
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #11 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:26pm
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ahhell wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:11pm:
Arnorld was a moderate conservative at worst, he actually did try to take a few of the forces making California so unlivable, they beat him and he gave up.  He stuck with popular but mostly bad policy from there on out. 

If you don't understand socially responsible conservatives, ask me and I'll tell you.




Well, like I said, it's not Arnold's fault he failed! But then you tell me he cooperated with the failing til the end.

I've always tried to get a conversation going on 'social responsibility'. If you can do that by framing it as 'socially responsible conservatism' then go for it.

Give me one or two examples of how conservatism can be socially responsible. I'm expecting we can find some common ground to agree upon!

If I voice reservations on your ideas I expect them to be based on questioning how 'conservative' they are.

You can come from a libertarian or conservative POV but I would expect you would want to make it sound libertarian. Either way is fine with me!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #12 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 3:15pm
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ahhell wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:11pm:
Arnorld was a moderate conservative at worst, he actually did try to take a few of the forces making California so unlivable, they beat him and he gave up.  He stuck with popular but mostly bad policy from there on out. 

If you don't understand socially responsible conservatives, ask me and I'll tell you.

Agreed.  The state was such a colossal mess, Arnold just didn't have the stuff to right all the wrongs of the previous administrations. 

I doubt if even Reagan could have fixed it!   Now that Moonbeam is back at the helm, things just get worse and worse.  Every Law that comes out of Sacramento is specifically designed to take away liberties and freedoms. They are bad laws. (except Prop 64 which legalized recreational cannabis).

California needs to split.  It has reached a sort of political critical mass
  
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ahhell
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #13 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 3:22pm
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SkyChief wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
Agreed.  The state was such a colossal mess, Arnold just didn't have the stuff to right all the wrongs of the previous administrations. 

I doubt if even Reagan could have fixed it!   Now that Moonbeam is back at the helm, things just get worse and worse.  Every Law that comes out of Sacramento is specifically designed to take away liberties and freedoms. They are bad laws. (except Prop 64 which legalized recreational cannabis).

California needs to split.  It has reached a sort of political critical mass

I think he might have fixed some if he'd had lower ambitions early on.  He had that special election inwhich he endorsed several propositions that took on multiple government employee unions.  He might have done alright if took them on one at a time.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #14 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 8:40pm
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U.S. Declaration of Independence  states:   

“That, whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such Principles and organizing its Powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness”.   


This is the fundamental argument for dividing California into two states - a New Free State, and a Socialist State that it has become under Moonbeam Brown's rule. 

There is a new movement to split California, and it is gaining popularity very quickly.  Last month [Feb], Ventura County became the 35th county to join the New California State movement to become the 51st state of the Union.

https://newcaliforniastate.com/new-california-news
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #15 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:39am
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Don, being a libertarian doesn't mean you don't have agreements with people from other political parties.  Arnold tried to bring some fiscal sanity to California.  The Cato Institute gave him an A for his economic policies in 2004.

https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/fiscal-policy-report-card-amer...

Unfortunately, he couldn't get them past the state legislature.
  
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #16 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 1:29pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:39am:
Don, being a libertarian doesn't mean you don't have agreements with people from other political parties.


Such an elementary truth Ruby and I understand it completely. But you've obviously mentioned it in context to my remarks of libertarians really being extreme rightists. There is no indication of anything leftist about them and they prove that by even rejecting the term 'socially responsible government'. They interpret it as 'communism'.

The new guy MMM, came to the forum not being predisposed with that idea in his head. You could join him before you commit yourself to being contrary.

Quote:
  Arnold tried to bring some fiscal sanity to California.  The Cato Institute gave him an A for his economic policies in 2004.

https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/fiscal-policy-report-card-amer...

Unfortunately, he couldn't get them past the state legislature. 


That's an entirely different issue and shouldn't be confused with the former. The Cato institute is an extreme right org and therefore that which is supports isn't necessarily good for any state. It's no wonder it was rejected by California.

It does however make my point that libertarians are extreme rightists. What I would consider a 'real' libertarain, would be someone who could take neither a right or left political position.

They claim to reject the two major parties but there's never any indication they reject anything that is Republican in it's politics.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #17 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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Libertarians don't reject any republican policies?  Since when?  Libertarians reject the war on drugs, prostitution being illegal, wars in shitholes, plenty of government regulations that republicans are in favor of.  A libertarian government would be much smaller than that of any republican administration.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #18 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 5:04pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 4:48pm:
Libertarians don't reject any republican policies?  Since when?  Libertarians reject the war on drugs, prostitution being illegal, wars in shitholes, plenty of government regulations that republicans are in favor of.
None of this has anything to do with the republican forms of government that were created and limited to being republican forms of government throughout the United States.

If the People's Republic of Kalifornia, keeps up with its shit, I think responsible Americans would overwhelmingly vote to expel S. Kalifornia from the Union of free States.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #19 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 5:03pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
If the People's Republic of Kalifornia, keeps up with its shit, I think responsible Americans would overwhelmingly vote to expel S. Kalifornia from the Union of free States.

Won't ever happen, Jeff.  California has tried secession many times - TWENTY SIX times since 1850, if im not mistaken.

  The fact is, California is simply too great an asset to the US.  The US would instantly become much weaker if California were cut loose. Congress would never approve secession. 

HOWEVER, they *might* allow California split into two (or more) smaller states. This way, the US doesn't lose any GDP advantages from the new State(s).

In a related story, Yesterday the President visited California and had a powerful message for the California governor Moonbeam Brown:

"[Moonbeam] Brown has done a very poor job at running California..." He then showed off some some tremendous designs for the border wall.  "We have to have it. It will be 99.5% successful." said Trump.
  
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